What Kind of VB is Best for a Beginning

What kind of VB should I Start Out With?

  • CV

    Votes: 26 92.9%
  • VCV

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • CVVC

    Votes: 4 14.3%
  • VCCV

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    28

Piia

Retired User
Retired User
Defender of Defoko
Hello everyone,

As probably some of you know, I'm planning to make an UTAU (~yay~)
But I'm still not sure which one to start out with. Could you guys suggest?

Thank you very much for your help I really appreciate it~ <3
 

HulderBulder

Retired User
Retired User
Defender of Defoko
I'd say CV japanese with vowel blends. really short and simple to record, easy to use, and not a ton of lines to oto. The only downside would be that there would be some choppyness, and unlike vcv oto you can't have a uniform oto and just drag the start point.
 

Kiyoteru

UtaForum power user
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
A CV bank is an excellent place to start for your very first bank, but after that, I recommend that your second step be CVVC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Piia and Nohkara

Kiyoteru

UtaForum power user
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
VCV is only practical for Japanese and similarly simple languages, while the concepts learned in CVVC can be applied to other languages.
Additionally, the reclist for CVVC is much smaller, and has less to OTO as a result.
While more effort has to be put into using the banks, there's tools available that make it just as easy (or easier) than using a VCV, like presamp.
Though, doing the editing by hand has the advantage of giving you more control over things like the timing of consonants, which can be useful for tuning.

The tradition of doing "CV first, VCV second" is only because of that being the order in which they were invented in the past. However, that doesn't mean it's the best order for people now to be following.
 

RenzoA

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
VCV is only practical for Japanese and similarly simple languages, while the concepts learned in CVVC can be applied to other languages.
Additionally, the reclist for CVVC is much smaller, and has less to OTO as a result.
While more effort has to be put into using the banks, there's tools available that make it just as easy (or easier) than using a VCV, like presamp.
Though, doing the editing by hand has the advantage of giving you more control over things like the timing of consonants, which can be useful for tuning.

Ah okay...well thanks for the info
 
  • Like
Reactions: Piia and Kiyoteru

☆彡иα∂ιѕ☆彡

Ash Ketchum
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
CV is a good start, it gives you time to master the oto, and then you can move on to VCV because it's just like CV oto wise, only you have a vowel before the consenant. However recording wise i'd also reccomend CVVC because it takes wayyyyyyy less time to record and the banks takes up less space
 
  • Like
Reactions: Piia and kimchi-tan

수연 <Suyeon>

Your friendly neighborhood koreaboo trash
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
CV first - gives you a chance to learn how to oto, learn how to pronounce things without rage-quitting. If you can master this, then you're set for life as far as other styles of configuration.
CVVC second - If you plan on ever trying more than Japanese, then move onto this style. More people will be hesitant to dl your bank (saying "idk how to use it") but it's easy to use if you can get presamp to work or convert with autocvvc (if you experience slow rendering cause you use fresamp or w/e then download nmasao1's resampler patch to speed things up).
VCV - only useful for Japanese and other really simple languages. I wouldn't recommend this method, esp. not for beginners.
 

✧ Elfrida ✧

The Space Witch
Defender of Defoko
I attempted to go from CV to VCV when I was a bit younger, but found it was too big of a jump for me (I was a lazy little preteen that didn't wanna spend so much time recording a VCV and figuring out how the hell the oto works) so I took a break for a while and went back to CV and transitioned from there to CVVC then VCV then eventually CVVC English since that was still a thing. Months ago I even felt comfortable enough to record VCCV English. Take your time and find what makes you comfortable.
 

kimchi-tan

Your local Mikotard
Global Mod
Defender of Defoko
Is it weird that I find otoing VCV easier than CV and CVVC?

My friend's very first voicebank was VCV but that was because she was already experienced with UTAU and has helped oto many others' voicebanks in the past (mostly VCV) so she had no trouble creating it. But for a fresh UTAU user, CV is definitely the most suitable. Otoing doesn't take too long (it can take as fast as only 30 minutes for experienced otoers) and because of the time and skill to oto CV, it's easy to ask around for help.

Although I proceeded with VCV after trying CV (because of moresampler), CVVC isn't a bad option to go through next either since it's faster to record and fine-tune the oto compared to VCV's many, many strings and thousands of sounds in the oto.
 

Piia

Retired User
Retired User
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
Last edited:

Nohkara

Pronouns: He/him
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Ok, let's play that we have a CV, CVVC and VCV reclist which all contains exactly same sounds.

a i u e o n
ba bi bu be bo
cha chi chu che cho
da di du de do
fa fi fu fe fo
ga gi gu ge go
ha hi - he ho
ja ji ju je jo
ka ki ku ke ko
ma mi mu me mo
na ni nu ne no
pa pu pu pe po
ra ri ru re ro
sa si su se so
sha shi shu she sho
ta ti tu te to
tsa tsi tsu tse tso
wa wi - we wo
ya - yu ye yo
za zi zu ze zo

bya - byu bye byo
gya - gyu gye gyo
hya - hyu hye hyo
kya - kyu kye kyo
mya - myu mye myo
nya - nyu nye nyo
pya - pyu pye pyo
rya - ryu rye ryo

"-" means that that sound is impossible in Japanese.

All sounds in total: 134

For JP CVVC, there's two "main" style which I will call in this time as "full" and "lite". Full's recordings style is basically like EVE and has following oto settings: "- CV" "- V" "CV" "V" "V V" and "V C". And in other hand, "lite" can be recoded longer mora than 2 and doesn't contain "- CV" and "- V" but otherwise has same than "full" one.

With a RAW* calculation, each of type has following amount of oto strings:

CV: 134 (if no "- V" or "* V" settings like in Defoko. If also "- V" and "* V" included in then it's 146)

"Full" CVVC: 462

"Lite" CVVC: 334

VCV: 938

*sorry if I made any little calculate error with CVVC but I know surely that size range is correct, tho! ^^;

and recording time? Well, it depends of several factors: how long is each sample (in CV), how many mora and tempo (in CVVC and VCV). But I can say that one CV takes around 30min, CVVC (depending of style) 20min-40min and in VCV 1.5h but this is just how much time takes from ME who has done UTAU for 3 years!

And configuring (oto) each style? CV in a day. CVVC (lite and full) takes me 1-3 day(s) and VCV takes for me 3-5 days in average(?)

Surely, when VCV oto is generated (in moresampler, OREMO or SetParam) you can do VCV way more quickly (I personally prefer to do with hand even it takes time). But CVVC and CV oto are the best do ALWAYS with hand! None generator is good with those two!

My answer is that CV is best for beginners even tho CV sounds as defaul choppier than CVVC or VCV. The simple reason is a count of oto AND recording time. I think that CVVC is the best next step because same or shorter recording time than in CV but has just 1/3~1/2 amount of VCV's configuring settings plus sounds less choppy than CV and IMO multipitch is the most ideal for CVVC style.

Sure, VCV is "easiest" to oto than CV CVVC where you need to know&understand what you do but once you trulely understand what all settings stands for, it isn't actually that hard!

And I'm sorry that my post became ridicilously long, hopefully you guys don't mind me :""DD
 
Last edited:

Piia

Retired User
Retired User
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
Ok, let's play that we have a CV, CVVC and VCV reclist which all contains exactly same sounds.

a i u e o n
ba bi bu be bo
cha chi chu che cho
da di du de do
fa fi fu fe fo
ga gi gu ge go
ha hi - he ho
ja ji ju je jo
ka ki ku ke ko
ma mi mu me mo
na ni nu ne no
pa pu pu pe po
ra ri ru re ro
sa si su se so
sha shi shu she sho
ta ti ti te to
tsa tsi tsu tse tso
wa wi - we wo
ya - yu ye yo
za zi zu ze zo

bya - byu bye byo
gya - gyu gye gyo
hya - hyu hye hyo
kya - kyu kye kyo
mya - myu mye myo
nya - nyu nye nyo
pya - pyu pye pyo
rya - ryu rye ryo

"-" means that that sound is impossible in Japanese.

All sounds in total: 134

For JP CVVC, there's two "main" style which I will call in this time as "full" and "lite". Full's recordings style is basically like EVE and has following oto settings: "- CV" "- V" "CV" "V" "V V" and "V C". And in other hand, "lite" can be recoded longer mora than 2 and doesn't contain "- CV" and "- V" but otherwise has same than "full" one.

With a RAW* calculation, each of type has following amount of oto strings:

CV: 134 (if no "- V" or "* V" settings like in Defoko. If also "- V" and "* V" included in then it's 146)

"Full" CVVC: 462

"Lite" CVVC: 334

VCV: 938

*sorry if I made any little calculate error with CVVC but I know surely that size range is correct, tho! ^^;

and recording time? Well, it depends of several factors: how long is each sample (in CV), how many mora and tempo (in CVVC and VCV). But I can say that one CV takes around 30min, CVVC (depending of style) 20min-40min and in VCV 1.5h but this is just how much time takes from ME who has done UTAU for 3 years!

And configuring (oto) each style? CV in a day. CVVC (lite and full) takes me 1-3 day(s) and VCV takes for me 3-5 days in average(?)

Surely, when VCV oto is generated (in moresampler, OREMO or SetParam) you can do VCV way more quickly (I personally prefer to do with hand even it takes time). But CVVC and CV oto are the best do ALWAYS with hand! None generator is good with those two!

My answer is that CV is best for beginners even tho CV sounds as defaul choppier than CVVC or VCV. The simple reason is a count of oto AND recording time. I think that CVVC is the best next step because same or shorter recording time than in CV but has just 1/3~1/2 amount of VCV's configuring settings plus sounds less choppy than CV and IMO multipitch is the most ideal for CVVC style.

Sure, VCV is "easiest" to oto than CV CVVC where you need to know&understand what you do but once you trulely understand what all settings stands for, it isn't actually that hard!

And I'm sorry that my post became ridicilously long, hopefully you guys don't mind me :""DD

Woooow... I really, really like what you did owo Thank you so much for explaining *in very very detail hahaha*

BOI I DON'T WANNA START OUT WITH 938 :')
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nohkara

RenzoA

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
CV first - gives you a chance to learn how to oto, learn how to pronounce things without rage-quitting. If you can master this, then you're set for life as far as other styles of configuration.
CVVC second - If you plan on ever trying more than Japanese, then move onto this style. More people will be hesitant to dl your bank (saying "idk how to use it") but it's easy to use if you can get presamp to work or convert with autocvvc (if you experience slow rendering cause you use fresamp or w/e then download nmasao1's resampler patch to speed things up).
VCV - only useful for Japanese and other really simple languages. I wouldn't recommend this method, esp. not for beginners.

so for languages like tagalog, malay, indonesian, JP etc. VCV is a good thing to use or CVVC?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Piia

kimchi-tan

Your local Mikotard
Global Mod
Defender of Defoko
so for languages like tagalog, malay, indonesian, JP etc. VCV is a good thing to use or CVVC?
I do know that a VCV reclist for Tagalog exists but because Tagalog has a lot of ending consonants, it way larger than VCV Japanese.

Unless you're willing to record and oto for long (much longer than VCV Japanese which is already tedious), CVVC is really the way to go.
 

RenzoA

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
I do know that a VCV reclist for Tagalog exists but because Tagalog has a lot of ending consonants, it way larger than VCV Japanese.

Unless you're willing to record and oto for long (much longer than VCV Japanese which is already tedious), CVVC is really the way to go.

Ah well thanks! At least now I know where to go after my CV vb...and yeah I did see the reclist xD...(and no, Im not ready for that thing xD I bet if I made someone OTO that they'd make me pay a high amount and im broke TT^TT)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Piia

Similar threads