Why do people dislike commercial UTAU?

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I personally think it's a cool concept, especially if you can get them physical in some form. I also wish there were many more UTAU related things to buy, like key chains, Plushies, etc.

I also get commercial UTAU can be sketchy because UTAU by nature has no quality control. But surely not every commercial UTAU would be bad, right? I would kill for a physical of Kye, MAR, Czloid or Trent VCCV.
 

AmberTonnerre

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
I personally think it's a cool concept, especially if you can get them physical in some form. I also wish there were many more UTAU related things to buy, like key chains, Plushies, etc.

I also get commercial UTAU can be sketchy because UTAU by nature has no quality control. But surely not every commercial UTAU would be bad, right? I would kill for a physical of Kye, MAR, Czloid or Trent VCCV.
What do you mean by commercial utau? Like Mitsuko? (Windows10)
 

Damien

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Retired User
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If you would buy whatever you're selling, then that's enough of a reason to go commercial imo.
 
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WinterdrivE

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
As far as just paid VBs go in general, I think a lot of people value UTAU as a totally free program. Like, the program is free, the voices are free, and if you want to make covers or your own original music, Audacity and some other DAWs are free, too. Asking people to pay for what arguably should be free kinda steps all over that value.

Also simply because of the logic 'why spend money on this one when there're 5 million free ones out there instead?'

Furthermore, I think there's a good portion of UTAU users and fanbase who're younger/in school and may not have a job or expendable income to be able to buy paid UTAU. (Or poor college graduates without expendable income) Perhaps it comes off feeling prohibitive.

I'm just throwing some of my thoughts on why that might be, though. I don't necessarily feel strongly one way or the other towards paid UTAU VBs.

As far as merch goes, though, I think its a really cute idea and a good way to give fans something a little extra.
 

Kiyoteru

UtaForum power user
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
One of the arguments I hear against commercial voicebanks is that UTAU itself is made available for free, so it's "wrong" to charge money for a voicebank. Or that everyone else's voicebanks are for free, so there's no point making a commercial one.

While the first statement is a bit nebulous, especially since UTAU can be purchased, the second one has merit. When releasing a voicebank that is purely commercial, it's competing against all the high quality free voicebanks out there. So it's unlikely to succeed unless it has something really special going for it, like a famous voice provider or a very appealing well-marketed character. (Though I doubt you'd ever make back your investment.)

When it comes to selling only part of an UTAU, such as a special boxed edition, a commercial usage license, or merchandise, I think the community is pretty accepting of that! No fight there.
[doublepost=1507519031][/doublepost]
I think a lot of people value UTAU as a totally free program. Like, the program is free, the voices are free, and if you want to make covers or your own original music, Audacity and some other DAWs are free, too. Asking people to pay for what arguably should be free kinda steps all over that value.

Oh, you phrased this argument a lot better than I did! Yes, it makes a lot more sense this way. A lot of people come here as an alternative to dropping a few hundred to get started with Vocaloid.
 

수연 <Suyeon>

Your friendly neighborhood koreaboo trash
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Defender of Defoko
The stigma comes from the following (IMO)...

- UTAU is free to download and use (though it does have a feature that requires purchase). Most voicebanks are free to download and use.

- Because there are so many voices out in the wild, in order for someone to deem a voice worth purchase, it would have to be unique in sound, have features that no one else has managed to do (dozens of languages, different expressions, growl, etc. etc.), be high quality (no one will buy a bank made on a Snowball in your bedroom with a bad oto), and maybe have some famous names promoting it.

- It's not like Vocaloid where there's some modicum of Quality Assurance Guaranteed. The Windows100% and Macne libraries may have been done on good mics, but their otos weren't much better than Defoko's unedited configurations or any other noob's first oto. No one wants to buy a library and then have to clean up the flaws.

- The majority of the fandom are kids/teens/young adults with very small budgets (if any budget at all for recreation).

- If someone had the budget to buy a HQ voice... they'd probably just buy a Vocaloid. Most voices have documentation on flaws, strengths, optimum tempo and range, a standardized reclist from Yamaha, and a minimum quality requirement (to avoid another Sonika). The worst quality you can get in the post V2 era would probably be Arsloid and Luka V4X, but they're still (arguably) higher quality than the average UTAU library because of the engine.

- Because of the lack of documentation... outside of demos, you have no way of really knowing what you'll be getting with an UTAU.
 
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Thanks everyone for providing your insight!

I do agree with some points and disagree with others.

It's true there are lots of free UTAU that commercial UTAU have to compete with, but I find commercial UTAU also quite memorable because they are for sale. I wouldn't spend money on another Vocaloid voicebank if a commercial UTAU I was interested in was also the same price, because I have quite a few Vocaloids already and still only use Len. But that's just me, personally.
 
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OngakuCD

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
Because they are an abomination!

JK, I think its because the idea of utau is to be a free alternative to vocaloid. Commercial utau are asking people to pay for a voicebank when
1. They can find the same quality for free
2.They can find better quality for free.
3.Most utau users are young, and just do plug-in-plays. They are not going to pay for an UTAU if that is their extent of using UTAU.

Regardless if you get a physical copy (like a CD...which I find redundant in this situation) it's still going to end up on your hard-drive. If I buy, for example, a physical copy of Czloid, I will still have her running on my desktop just as if I downloaded her from a file storage site.

What I'm interested in is why sell the voicebanks? Is it to invest in better mic, recording studios, or self gain ? Now, leading into another idea I mentioned before; What if UTAU itself was not free, that it was brought out by YAMAHA, SONY, SAMSUNG, or Microsoft itself. Purchasing default voicebanks like Windows100% would then make sense. Furthermore, having a parent company over UTAU and funds would allow for better maintenance and upgrades for the program (from the engines, plugins, ect.).

The point I'm trying to make with this is that when you are bringing economics into utau (or anything) there has to be a benefit between the distributor and consumer. I see no benefit in paying or an utau. Unless someones manages to make the most smooth, realistic sounding UTAU ever that retails for $30, and there are some producers out there looking to use UTAU instead of vocaloid, I dont see commercial utaus establishing itself in a market with Vocaloid dominating the game.

But thats just my nickle and a dime :D
 
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@OngakuCD Very valid argument you make here.

I guess I'm just a stickler for physicals, in all honestyyyyyy~
 

Arissa

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
I feel like I see this more in the overseas fandom(as far as commercialization of UTAU goes, my friend and her friends seem to have no qualm about making merchandise of their Utau, and do stuff like make art books, anthologies, keychains, open booths, etc for their Utau, seems pretty fun imo)

So anyway, I think a lot of ppl against the whole monetizing a voicebank are in that mindset that UTAU is free, so voicebanks and whatnot shouldn't have prices on them, as Kiyo mentioned. I think another thing is that people can get critical (or maybe they are just being honest at times), so there may be a voicebank/character available only by purchasing, and some people may think this is irrational because the bank may be bad quality or unappealing, so they think it's a rip-off or something to charge money for that Utau. They may think the person selling them is arrogant or foolish, reminds me of art in a way. Some people think art of certain quality is not worth selling. Some people(very irritating to artists, I'll say) think art is just something of easy fun and that it's ridiculous to be charging money for it. See where it compares with Utau? Lots of people are against people doing original songs, making albums to sell, merchandise to sell, because they think Utau is just for hobby, not something a person should make money from.

There are likely other reasons, but I think those are main ones. I don't mind people selling merchandise, (I may buy some if I want/can) and if they want to sell their banks that's fine, too, if I'm not interested I won't waste time being in a huff about it or anything, it's not harming anyone.
 
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RaccoonButler

Founder of The Church of Mawarine Shuu
Defender of Defoko
I think the tendency is just that commercial voicebanks don't typically succeed because there's not a lot of incentive to pay for one.

There are many extremely high quality banks that are completely free, so even if the commercial bank is absolutely stellar beyond any bank that's ever been while having a unique and beautiful voice (which I have yet to see), people usually don't have THAT MUCH of a reason to pay for one. Sure, you'd probably expect a certain level of quality, but it's not hard to find high quality Utau for free these days.

Additionally, one thing I've noticed with commercial utau is that they don't usually capitalize on the character aspect of UTAU. Often times the characterization serves as a way for people to become emotionally attached to the bank, and buy/download them simply for that reason, even if they're not that good. This is a lot of the time what vocaloid does, and I see people a lot of the time buying banks that they think are low quality just because they're fond of a vocaloid and wanna support their "waifu/husbando/son/daughter". I think the commercial UTAU scene might be more successful if they take advantage of this kind of marketing/hype strategy to appeal to the often anime character-centric demographic.

I think people also get the false impression that someone who's selling their bank thinks their utau is above other's to the point where it's worth money.

I haven't seen people against the idea of commercializing merch though. Or selling a physical copy of the bank while keeping a free non-physical download available.
 
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sio

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
the majority of my friend circle is in the music industry and don't distinguish between vocaloid and utau and keep pushing me to commercialize my voicebank. i personally don't really wanna since i feel like it's super bad reputation since the community is already super small so profiting off such a thing can feel unfair to the other users somehow ;;
and besides, it's for fun!

that said, most content creators can probably get away with making fanart products like prints/charms of popular/own UTAUs like teto etc :D as long as there's no super mass production involved hahah
[doublepost=1507573703][/doublepost]although i don't get why would anyone be upset over people using their utaus to make original songs and albums for $$, since it's an instrument after all and can and should be used as such.
i.e. bo en's "pale machine" and maxo's "chordslayer"

maxo - reach you (used koharune ami) https://maxoisnuts.bandcamp.com/track/reach-you
bo en - pale machine (with defoko) https://boen.bandcamp.com/track/pale-machine
 
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May I ask you all what your thoughts on purchasing like a $5 commercial license is, such as Studio Ogien does?
 
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heta-tan

Genderless Goon
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Defender of Defoko
Personally, I also have commercial licenses for my banks mainly because I don't want people to go off making money off of something I've worked on for several months. For me at least, it's strange for someone to use my voice and character to make a profit. Since users aren't going to be using my UTAU for commercial reasons (prints, originals on bandcamp, etc.) , most people aren't going to have to pay for a license. Even without the license, you can still use the UTAU which I think is important. You're not making a bank exclusive, just the uses of it.
As long as the owners are clear about their usage clauses in the read me/website/ wherever, I don't see a problem
 
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Shasta

Professional Lurker
Global Mod
Defender of Defoko
I have all of my utau free to use, I assumed no one would want to use my utau for commercial purposes, so there are not commercial licenses or commercial permissions for them. I instead would lead to an alternative, or grant personal permissions for friends. I'm going to be honest with you, there is an infamous, for lack of better words, user who is known for making only commercial banks. I feel that user is part of the stigma against them.. A few other reasons are, but aren't limited to:

1.) utau is a free software and most things for it are free, too.

2.) For ever commercial bank, there are 5 free ones of same or better quality.

3.) There is no such thing as a popular utau. There are known ones, but there is no incentive in buying a commercial utau. You have that commercial bank? Cool, I have one that sounds just like it, and it was free.

4.) In all honesty, an utau's biggest fan is, and should be their own creator(s), so why would someone else want a packaged version of someone else's hard work? Typically, utau voicebanks/characters are more personal. Vocaloids are made for profit, and profit only. Unlike utaus, they have no soul, no heart. They're for money, utau is for the soul.
 

OngakuCD

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
The voice
Studio Ogien has put a lot of effort in their utau team....but who's been out here using them? I like the website, I like the utau design but I find nothing unique about their voicebank enough to pay to use it.

Licensing is still paying for the rights to use a brand, or in this case, an utau. When you buy a vocaloid, you buy ownership of that vocaloid to do as you please. What I think would be better is if you had royalties applied to using your utau. That way if a producer makes a hit song or whatever the case may be, you will be getting a percent of their earnings.

But I still see roadblocks

First, UTAU is intellectual property owned by Ameya who does have jurisdiction over how their software is used. They may not be as active in the program, but its their legal right to shut the selling of utau down if it goes against their wishes. This is me reaching right now.

Second, how are we defining our utau? Are they a character that can sing or an instrument? If they are the latter, I don't see how any copyright laws could protect your utau from being used without permission. Its would be me making a violin and establishing copyright/patent on the design. Its still a violin built as any other violin. Utau may have different voice types, but I don't see that as enough distinction to be protected because they use the same software.

Third, the internet is filled with pirates and you have to acknowledge that their will be people uploading your voicebank for free. What will you do? What can you do? Are you really going to get lawyers involved and sue? What if a producer uses your utau, gets 2 million views, but doesn't share its profit with you? They can do this now, but if your utau has a price tag, you have rights to that money (just like artist find themselves in legal battles when they sample beats/vocals from other artist), but can you honestly do?

The character
Paralleling above, Studio Ogien has put a lot of effort in their utau team. Their characters hold more merit over their voice and they can use that alone for selling merchandise. That works. I think if they had better promoting, they could be a thing

How you design your utau is of your own doing....unless you specifically stole a design from somewhere. That is your intellectual property and it would be wrong for someone to take your character and make merchandise of it. This is something that is being done right now with utaus such as Teto, Roku, and Defoko.

You have more grounds to sell the character, similar to how people do adoptable. Yet once again, whats to stop people from making a key-chain or button off of your utau?

I find it hard to see how selling on having money involved with your utau would work

I know, I know, I'm a party pooper.
 

Kiyoteru

UtaForum power user
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
I mean, in the end, I guess I generally see all these various commercial UTAU things as something that one would do for fun, not really to make money and all. It's essentially doujin work, the way that people will sell things like posters, comics, and CDs just for the enjoyment of doing it rather than trying to establish some sort of brand and make it big.
 

Alessandra

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
I personally think it's a cool concept, especially if you can get them physical in some form. I also wish there were many more UTAU related things to buy, like key chains, Plushies, etc.

I also get commercial UTAU can be sketchy because UTAU by nature has no quality control. But surely not every commercial UTAU would be bad, right? I would kill for a physical of Kye, MAR, Czloid or Trent VCCV.
Well... I think it will be from a side soooo cool, from another side bad
Cool because they are mostly high rated, voiced by professionals of the Sector, and so the quality is assured
Bad because UTAU is a freeware program, so I think the logic would be "all is free". It's like you create a vocaloid for free... it's unlogic
 
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