Are you worried for the UTAU community?

Aali

Ruko's Ruffians
I don't think we quality should be such a big deal in this community. Yes, we want our banks to sound good, but some people don't have the equipment to do so and they feel discouraged and quit.
 

etherealfrost

Teto's Territory
Thread starter
I agree, but like you said, I just want to make songs. And my vb is private because I don't want others to use it anyway :smile:
Again, that was not directed at you personally.
[DOUBLEPOST=1438202363][/DOUBLEPOST]There is always going to be a big focus on quality because in the end we are still using a program made to sort of mimic Vocaloid, and the entire appeal is being able to create your own. As such, they will always be compared to the always perfect (well, okay, not always) quality of Vocaloid voice banks.

However, it should not be so that newcomers are being insulted/driven away/etc because of the likely poor quality they will produce at first. Because even Vocaloid had to start somewhere.
 

chunter

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
As operating systems get updates, the program will stop functioning properly. Eventually it will become impossible to use.

I come from a fandom who keep computers from 1986 working because that's the sound and software they want. It's hard work, but if it is what you want, it is what you do.

...

As a beginner, or as a potential teacher who encounters a beginner, it's important to remember that it takes years to get to a certain quality level, some grow faster than others, and some reach the limit of their abilities and have to work very hard to improve.
 

MystSaphyr

Procrastinator Extraordinaire
Administrator
Defender of Defoko
I agree with chunter, haha. I feel that if UTAU ever became wholly incompatible with Windows version blah whatever, the really dedicated crowd would just set up an old-OS virtual machine or get an old laptop or something. I bought myself an old cheap-y Windows XP Dell that to guarantee that LEON, LOLA and MIRIAM wouldn't give me problems, and KodaP did the same with a virtual machine.

A taaad off-topic, but I want to chime in on the "lowering standards for newbies entering the fandom" bit: I totally agree that this should be the case, not everyone comes into the fandom with a personal UTAU tutor (though in my ideal world they could). And again, chunter took the words right out of my mouth, different people grow at different rates. In addition, different people have varying home situations that limit their free time, or personal space, or monetary spending (or hell, maybe they have severe asthma or something, you literally never know!) that would make them incapable of buying an AT2020 or recording 8-moora VCV powerscale for 4 hours at a time. Everyone's different.

HOWEVER, that being said... (spoilered for a slightly offtopic CVVC tangent)

(Bear with me, this is probably my personal bias speaking) I believe that even with newbies, we can up the game from CV nowadays, by making CVVC the base standard and providing tutorials and assistance with such. The most simple CVVC bank is literally just a CV bank with double-length recordings. The more I use it, the more I realize that it's literally the PERFECT stepping-stool teaching tool for almost every aspect of UTAU. In recording, you learn how the OREMO background music and metronome works. It can be otoed and function as traditional CV, and later on can be used to instruct one in more advanced oto theory (learning CVVC helps a lot with VCV, the principle of preutter/overlap ratio is generally the same!). It can help with learning plugins (presamp and autoCVVC). It can be a blessing for tuning USTs (oh my god using the pitch points on a VC to edit pitch at the end of the preceding CV aaaaaa).

Do I believe this renders new or existing CV banks completely obsolete? Hell no. OREMO's default list is still CV and I almost exclusively recorded and used CV for 5 damn years. Two of my absolute favorite voicebanks, Namine Tsux and Pam, are CV (granted, Tsux is tripitch). I keep finding really super unique CV banks all over YouTube. But I do think that CVVC is an option that really, truly deserves to be explored more, both by experienced users and newcomers alike.
 

kimchi-tan

Your local Mikotard
Global Mod
Defender of Defoko
As someone who barely has time herself, I think that perhaps focusing your priorities and shifting away from your hobbies (such as UTAU, of course) is simply a part of growing up. After investing all that time and effort just to make your UTAU sound amazing, at the end of the day, there is something else that is more important (unless you're creating UTAU originals for a living, of course.)

Personally, I think it's pretty normal to loose interest in a hobby. It's tough balancing studies/work with free time, afterall. People come and go. Though I don't want to discourage people, when I got friend two years ago on this forum, she suddenly disappeared :cry: But hey, the more to treasure each person and for you to pass on your knowledge as much as you can, right? especially since with the forum updating, the PMs we've exchanged disappeared :'D

As for @MystSaphyr's opinion:
Recording wise, it's ideal since it's just a double-length recording. Though for its usage/output, in my experience, CVVC is harder to handle especially on faster tempos. But then again, slower tempoed songs would be easier to tune for beginners, so your idea has potential. The matter of it pushing through, though, would take time.
 
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Mougeki Mero

Defoko's Slaves
Defender of Defoko
CV...well, I'm okay with VCV, CVVC, VCCV, etc. but for beginners, they should start with CV first, and if it's bad, try to improve it, until they understand how to configure the voicebank properly. If they are confident with trying VCV and other recording technique, go ahead! It's totally good.

I think I'm not the only person who still likes CV, and it's true that CV is still, totally acceptable until now. I think that making a very good CV voicebank can take a lot of time and effort as well. Yet people's voicebank type preference is entirely different, so I don't know how to explain about it further.

Well, I am a very crazy fan of VCV banks. However, sometimes a VCV isn't good: unclear samples or bad oto.

When it comes to CV, it is true that even being a high quality voicebank, it will have less quality than a Perfecr VCV, HOWEVER, if the sounds are CLEAR and the OTO is great, it may sound just like a VCV, with some small flaws.

For example, Nizimine Kakoi CV bank is very clear, and sounds just like a VCV...Macne Nana 2S, thoight, had great sounds, but I needed to edit the OTO here and there (the overlaps were properly placed, but it could still be better).
[doublepost=1467195442][/doublepost]Oh, sorry for the post merge, but I think people quitting UTAU is not about quality (Death Ohagi, for example, is a great UTAU original producer).
Well, just my opnion, but there are some things:

1-The name VOCALOID is very known, specially to newcomers, while UTAU is still unknown, besides Teto's name...

2-People want others to use their UTAU. But most of the time they don't, and this kind of dismotivates the user. (This topic is relatively small, but still happens. I think the UTAU creayor should be more mature, but anyway...)

3-Selling works. It seens to be easier doing this within VOCALOID.

4-And also the misjudging of UTAU. The "I wanna play the expert" people generally says UTAU"s quality is lower than VOCALOID's. They basically say "ANY UTAU is low quality when compared to VOCALOID". "Well, UTAU is easier, but VOCALOID is high quality" etc. Well, this kind of rages me, as I have both software, and even if VOCALOID gave me good results, UTAU gave me almost the same ones.

So, resuming, I think some of the problem is people misjudging UTAU and leading others to believe them. So old users get out, and new users doesn"t even want to join the UTAU community.
 
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RaccoonButler

Founder of The Church of Mawarine Shuu
Defender of Defoko
Well, a lot of people make banks specifically for other people to use. And when you are basically making products for people, you want them to be as good as possible. However, not everyone does that. And in that case, they can do what they want.

It's sad when people get discouraged at their own utau's quality but you can't blame people for wanting a bank that's not choppy or unclear or accented, because they are using them to make something. Though not everyone is looking for quality, do you really blame those who do for just wanting a bank that's actually good? If you're doing UTAU and you know yours can't be at least understandable, you should be in it for UTAU itself and not other people using your vb. Even people with high quality vbs don't get their UTAUs used anyway. This is coming from someone who's entire budget is a 50$ amazon gift card from their birthday.

You shouldn't be forced to make your UTAU high quality. But you can't expect the greatest response or popularity if you don't.
 
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수연 <Suyeon>

Your friendly neighborhood koreaboo trash
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Preface: it's early in the morning, I haven't eaten a real meal since... IDK... Sunday? Nor have I had any coffee so... this will probably come across as scatterbrained or incoherent. *shrugs*

Vocaloid and UTAU - quality wise - are basically on par nowadays, especially when you factor in decent recordings and oto as well as moresampler. Yes, UTAU's flaws are easier to hear, but that's because we're used to the software. I'm pretty sure if we put everyone in front of a machine running Vocaloid 4 and gave them a LQ, MQ, and HQ library to play with, they would start recognizing inherent flaws in the individual voices as well as the vocaloid engine. Not everyone has that privilege. Nor for that matter does everyone have the specs (and may not be comfortable opening up their machines) to run virtual machines, dual boot offline, or have a 2nd machine all together that can run an old OS for a dedicated program.

If the community dies, it'll be because of the community imploding in on itself - short of new windows versions breaking off compatibility and Vocaloid itself dying (cause let's be real - most of our UST output is dependent on what's the latest hot song on Nico/SC/YT). People get sick of being around...
- trouble makers who go unchecked
- those who refuse to help others (or someone promises to do something in return for said help and fail to deliver - which makes you not want to help when you feel like your time will be wasted)
- elitists who won't use someone's bank simply because of it's type - there are people who will actually say 'I love your bank and would use it if it were VCV.' Doesn't matter if the voicetype is one they want, is well configured and can stand on it's own legs along side VCV - they simply won't use it just cause of the vb type. That's undue pressure on the voicer and IMO - if people are going to demand particular bank types (6+ pitches VCV with 4 appends, along with some Kire, Growl, and Screamo, polyglot etc.), maybe they should contribute to making the bank as well (offer to oto, art, donate towards equipment, water, etc.).

As for raising the recording standards: I've heard everything from masterful CV to poorly done VCV. I think that CVVC is a good base standard to work from - especially since it's easy to transition to different languages. VCV isn't easy to implement for most languages outside of Japanese and is bulky for those with a capped/limited data plan - especially when you get into banks like Koharune Ami, Gahata Meiji, etc. that are at least a gigabyte for their full packages. It's a good middle ground as far as ease of use (anyone newb or expert can use it and learn from it).
 

Kiyoteru

UtaForum power user
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Well, a lot of people make banks specifically for other people to use.

I feel like this is one of the issues that the UTAU community has, actually.
Most people are caught up in creating characters and voicebanks and hoping that somebody else will use them- oh, senpai, notice me!

I've kind of fallen out of this. The reason I make reclists and banks and such is because I personally want to use them, for whatever reason.
This is MUSIC software, but not enough people are actually making MUSIC. They're hoping and hoping that somebody else will like their UTAU and do it instead. It's Someone Else's Problem and eventually that Someone Else ends up not existing. We gotta take charge in creating content.
 

RaccoonButler

Founder of The Church of Mawarine Shuu
Defender of Defoko
I feel like this is one of the issues that the UTAU community has, actually.
Most people are caught up in creating characters and voicebanks and hoping that somebody else will use them- oh, senpai, notice me!

I've kind of fallen out of this. The reason I make reclists and banks and such is because I personally want to use them, for whatever reason.
This is MUSIC software, but not enough people are actually making MUSIC. They're hoping and hoping that somebody else will like their UTAU and do it instead. It's Someone Else's Problem and eventually that Someone Else ends up not existing. We gotta take charge in creating content.

I don't blame people for wanting approval or acknowledgement for their work. If no one seems to care about your work it can seem pointless and without people telling someone otherwise they may be led to believe they're just spewing out garbage. This isn't always the case. But,

the desire for approval can't be helped by some people. Though I agree that the focus on popularity
Is too much and people's sole motivation being popularity and unrealistic expectations is often the reason they leave.

If you got interested in UTAU because of the character aspect, being able to give them a voice to sing, and not so much the technology or creating your own music, there's nothing wrong with that. You just have to be motivated by your love of doing that rather than hopes of popularity.
 

Mougeki Mero

Defoko's Slaves
Defender of Defoko
The hopes of popularity was what motivated me to create my UTAU. But when I noticed there was just (and still are) 18 downloads of her VB, I gave up on that idea. Like...UTAU is for music, I should be creating music for me, because I like it. And share with other people, if I want to...
 

Jeffrey

local hiatus'er
Defender of Defoko
I'm still using UTAU even on leave, just not too much to destroy lifestyles. That "popularity" point from the users above was what made me do UTAU in the first place, tbh, but even after a year of using and recieving little to no attention, I'm persistently persistent on using the software.

Maybe it's the fact that I don't know Japanese, or how the software works in the background...

Anywho, I kept hearing (seeing) users that say, "I'm going to create a better UI for UTAU"
Is creating a GUI (UEFI) that hard? I'm just asking here, not judging... (tabun, emi)
 
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sailor _ravioli

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
I don't really worry about the fandom sure dumb stuff and drama is going to happen but thats in every fandom
I also don't necessarily feel like the fandom is dying but it is stagnating and to keep the fandom active you can do your part by making art, vbs, covers, originals, etc.

to add on about the popularity issue:

Yes I feel like the desire to be popular runs rampant in this community and is what kind of slowly killing it. hate to break it to ya but not everyone is going to become popular in a month or so or in any short amount of time (usually) keep in mind most """popular""" people have been using this program for like 5+ years
I really hate talking about this stuff but if you join this community with hopes of becoming popular and have no actual interest in the progran you will quickly get bored and most likely leave
If you use the software because you find it interesting and get enjoyment out of making art, covers, originals, etc. awesome! I mean sure it's nice to get attention every once in awhile but that shouldn't be the main driving force behind why you use utau it's just not likely it's going to happen

Ps sorry I typed this on mobile with my big fat ape hands sorry if there's any typos
 

luiysia

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
the concerns about popular users leaving remind me of when I was active on Scratch. that community had a much, much faster turnover rate, since it was specifically geared towards kids, and that basically taught me that no matter how great of a figurehead quits, there will always be someone new. I could list 3 or 4 generations of Scratch celebrities that passed in just 5 years. in this regard, at least, I think utau will be fine.
 

수연 <Suyeon>

Your friendly neighborhood koreaboo trash
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Popularity in the fandom... The hunt for being internet famous will definitely kill enthusiasm in the newer/younger ones of the community if perspective isn't kept:
- UTAU's been around since 2008/2009. From then til now is a long time to not be around, and even just dropping off for a couple years and returning can kill whatever momentum you had going.
- You're sharing attention with 4,000+ UTAU. Yes, some of these are only famous for longevity (Vippers), rarity (Nana and co., Matsudappoids), or due to being jokes (that green haired maidloid who's name I can't recall; and again: Vippers), while others come from out of nowhere and become overnight successes. I would say the chance that there is to get popular beyond your friends is... 1 in 5000. Not to say it can't happen, but it takes a lot of dedication and time on the UTAU creator's part and you can't just think that it's: record VB +oto + demo it once or twice = profit.

I agree with @Adlez27 that we need to remember that it's music software first and foremost. If you're not a natural musician, there's nothing wrong with that. There's plenty to do as far as artistic expression with UTAU even if it's not instrumentation or voicebank creation and if people could actually work together - like, really work together, not just have ideas that never get off the cutting room floor - then I believe things can actually be accomplished so that things don't remain stagnant or die. UTAU is... the best vehicle for collaboration if people moved beyond simply having ideas and making them something tangible.
 

Mougeki Mero

Defoko's Slaves
Defender of Defoko
Popularity in the fandom... The hunt for being internet famous will definitely kill enthusiasm in the newer/younger ones of the community if perspective isn't kept:
- UTAU's been around since 2008/2009. From then til now is a long time to not be around, and even just dropping off for a couple years and returning can kill whatever momentum you had going.
- You're sharing attention with 4,000+ UTAU. Yes, some of these are only famous for longevity (Vippers), rarity (Nana and co., Matsudappoids), or due to being jokes (that green haired maidloid who's name I can't recall; and again: Vippers), while others come from out of nowhere and become overnight successes. I would say the chance that there is to get popular beyond your friends is... 1 in 5000. Not to say it can't happen, but it takes a lot of dedication and time on the UTAU creator's part and you can't just think that it's: record VB +oto + demo it once or twice = profit.

I agree with @Adlez27 that we need to remember that it's music software first and foremost. If you're not a natural musician, there's nothing wrong with that. There's plenty to do as far as artistic expression with UTAU even if it's not instrumentation or voicebank creation and if people could actually work together - like, really work together, not just have ideas that never get off the cutting room floor - then I believe things can actually be accomplished so that things don't remain stagnant or die. UTAU is... the best vehicle for collaboration if people moved beyond simply having ideas and making them something tangible.

Sorry, but what exactly do you mean by working together? (I am really stupid and slow, again sorry)
 

수연 <Suyeon>

Your friendly neighborhood koreaboo trash
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Sorry, but what exactly do you mean by working together? (I am really stupid and slow, again sorry)
There's plenty of ways to work together towards a common goal; you can look at the credits of your average producer (assuming they're not a one man band):
- Someone or multiple people (in the case of actual instruments) make the instrumental and master it
- Someone writes the lyrics and/or translates
- Someone tunes the voice to be used once the melody and harmonies are done and gotten from the midi (assuming it's done at the same time as the instrumental)
- Someone creates the artwork(s)
- Someone makes the video

That's... 7 ways in which people can work together to make something with Vocasynth.

There's also (for the voicebank creation side of things)...
- QC/QA (quality control/assurance): maintaining the quality of a bank being created - making sure pronunciation, maintenance of tone, and quality of samples are on par with release requirements
- configuration
- avatar (brainstorming design, sketching concepts, finalizing artwork)
- demo and testing
- promotion on social media
 
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Piia

Retired User
Retired User
Defender of Defoko
tbh I am, im worried that we will become like vocaloidotaku, very toxic(we are already halfway there)
Necroing because I'm curious
What do you mean by "very toxic?" Like, bad influence or something? :O
 

Hazu パワ

Weeaboo yet not Weeaboo
Defender of Defoko
Things seem to have reeeaaalllyyy quieted down in the last few years. Members that haven't been active in a year are still at the top of "notable member" list. I'm seeing a lot less from the people who had high-quality banks and/or were very popular. At least two UTAU users have now gotten Vocaloids (Macne Nana and Ruby, voiced by Misha), and who knows, there could be more. It's seeming easier (feels weird to say that considering it still is extremely difficult) to "become" a Vocaloid, but with the flood of releases following V3 and V4 it's starting to seem to me like people will just start getting Vocaloids left and right. A popular UTAU user even got to design a Vocaloid (which certainly isn't the same as voicing one, but still.)

That being said, that's just it; popular UTAU users are getting these chances. So you'd hope that that would mean UTAU actually gets a big surge of people trying even harder now that there's been fruits of these efforts!

Anyway, was just thinking about this because the people I used to talk to and do UTAU collabs with have stopped using it altogether (and as such our own friendships have tapered away...) so I worry that I won't find any solace in it anymore if I'm just doing it by myself, you know?

Kind of a rant. Sorry about that.
Personally I'm more worried that UTAU hasn't been updated since 2013. Unless I'm wrong- though- You have to remember that a lot of the UTAU community come right from the Vocaloid community so they will continue to go hand in hand and swap active users.
 

Halo

Icon by Wanpuccino @ DA
Administrator
Defender of Defoko
Actually, another two UTAU voicers voiced their own VOCALOIDs... DEX and DAINA. So that makes 4 confirmed, if you count Nana.

I'm mostly worried that UTAU's creator has straight up dropped off the face of the planet since about 2014. Ameya, where are you...?
 

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