In Your Opinion, Which Bank Type is Better?

[☆彡иα∂ιѕ☆彡]

I was just curious, I wanted to make a CVVC because of time, but i'm also worried about convenience...

 

[Kiyoteru]

I like VCV because the reclists are fun to write, the otos are simple, and the banks are fun to use. However, it's really inefficient compared to CVVC, and it generally just takes a lot of time. They also take up quite a lot of file space. Because of that, I recommend that people do CVVC. It's also the only practical VB type for languages other than Japanese. With presamp, it can be just as convenient as VCV to use.

 

[kimchi-tan]

As someone who is only an UTAU user and not an UTAU voicer/VB creator, I prefer VCV because of how it is easier to use. Most Japanese USTs are either CV or VCV which are easy to convert to-and-fro with plugins. Sure you can always use presamp, but it isn't perfect in "converting" (especially when I use a CVVC UST with a VCV bank).

 

[RaccoonButler]

I guess it depends on what aspect we're talking about.

VCV is a lot easier to use but it takes so much work to record and oto even with oto generators (which some of us can't use.)

CVVC takes way less recordings and is just as smooth but the problem is 1. You have to configure them just right and 2. They're much less user friendly. Even after using it for awhile and getting the hang of it, it's harder than vcv, but mostly because it's less accessable. It's new and hard to get used to is the problem and there's not as many resources on it.

So I guess the question would be, are we talking better for the user or better for the creator?

 

[h4nz is the best]

Sound wise, I don't see much of a difference.

But CVVC aren't very user friendly and aren't as easy to configure (so I've heard)... They do take less time to record but compared to VCV, sure, it takes longer to record and oto but in the end it's worth it. Everyone likes VCV :-))

 

[HulderBulder]

Pros of CVVC: Quick to make, doesn't take as much space, has some plugings and stuff to help converting. Quick to understand how to use. Best format for languages with ending consonants.
Cons of CVVC: The plugins and what not are not alot and some require you to still edit the ust (Time Consuming). un-uniform oto.

Pros of VCV: Easy to use and learn, uniform oto, alot of recourses to help in making and using. Best for Japanese.
Cons of VCV: Takes longer time to make, alot of otoing, takes alot of space.
CV is nice, easy, and small. only needs good oto and vv for japanese

In the end it depends. Do you want a bank that require more note editing but takes less space? Or a bank that is huge but really easy to use?
Imo CVVC just needs some improvment in the resources and plugins, wich may come in the near future.

 

[unknownLinguist]

I prefer CVVC because I think it lets more character shine through the voice. Also for JP: There are very occasionally consonant ending sounds, that you can get with CVVC, but not so much with VCV. I think CVVC is about as smooth too, even though it is quicker to make a cvvc bank.

 

[lunavi]

I'm going through the joy of test recording and such, and I've been playing with both formats.

As an UTAU voicer, I can absolutely see the appeal of CVVC -- less recording time, less material to record, etc. As an end-user, while I tend to prefer CVVC over CV, I absolutely prefer to use VCV over CVVC, if only for the amount of work using a CVVC bank requires.
(I also love how flexible VCV strings are when it comes to configuration styles, but that might just be me.)

 

[Cupcake]

People do know that there's autocvvc which can convert CV/VCV USTs to CVVC and vice versa?
There's nothing unconvenient about CVVC, it only takes more time to oto (that's what i've heard, yet to test it myself)

 

[Zoku]

VCV would be the one that takes more time to oto.

Both 'types' are evenly matched. With CVVC, it's easier to record and you can control the consonant transitions much more easily, plus it's faster to completely oto. With VCV, it's simpler (but not faster) to oto, and easy to use. Both are equally smooth.

 

[RaccoonButler]

People do know that there's autocvvc which can convert CV/VCV USTs to CVVC and vice versa?
There's nothing unconvenient about CVVC, it only takes more time to oto (that's what i've heard, yet to test it myself)

well I mean for one, not every cvvc bank follows the oto that matches the autocvvc converter. And when it comes to fast songs, you have to deal with really tiny notes

 

[☆彡иα∂ιѕ☆彡]

well I mean for one, not every cvvc bank follows the oto that matches the autocvvc converter. And when it comes to fast songs, you have to deal with really tiny notes

you can put a copy of the oto in the plugin tho i had to do that with a spanish bank

 

[수연 <Suyeon>]

well I mean for one, not every cvvc bank follows the oto that matches the autocvvc converter. And when it comes to fast songs, you have to deal with really tiny notes

That can be rectified by the creator of a given bank making a CVVC dictionary to load in autocvvc (easy to accomplish once you get a grasp of how it's set up). For faster songs, 9 times out of 10, you can get away with using CVVC banks in CV mode (if the oto is well done, then you don't even need to convert - or even use presamp - beyond adding a dash to notes after a rest and vv transitions).

To avoid double posting: I prefer CVVC as it's faster to get done, can be used for virtually any language, and allows for more control over results.

While VCV certainly isn't bad, it's only really useful for Japanese and other languages that don't require phonemic complexity. It also can be more problematic if you...
- are a newb who hasn't changed locale (or aren't a newb but just refuse to/aren't able to) and want to DL banks. More often than not, VCV banks are encoded in hiragana which will become mojibake. It's rare that people provide a romaji encoded bank these days; even rarer if they provide a romaji oto.
- are a Mac user trying to make your banks available for PC users and use the wrong archiver (dakuten and handakuten get read as gibberish to Windows and UTAU PC treats these glitched wav samples as if they don't exist)
- are a Mac user trying to load certain banks and they simply... crash for no apparent reason in UTAU-Synth for one person and work fine for another (I'm not saying CV and CVVC banks don't have this problem; they probably do, [IDK; I'm not a Mac user] but there's been no reports that I'm aware of in terms of UTAU-Synth or PC UTAU under WINE. I pretty much only see threads pertaining to this issue in regards to VCV banks).
- have limited HDD space (looking at you Gahata Meiji, Koharune Ami, etc. etc. and all other VCV banks that go beyond 750mbs).

 

[RaccoonButler]

Plus when you're on UTAU synth you can't use plug ins at all
[doublepost=1470888817][/doublepost][QUOTE="For faster songs, 9 times out of 10, you can get away with using CVVC banks in CV mode (if the oto is well done, then you don't even need to convert - or even use presamp - beyond adding a dash to notes after a rest and vv transitions)./QUOTE]

You could do that but it sacrifices smoothness though, it's inconvenient

 

[수연 <Suyeon>]

Plus when you're on UTAU synth you can't use plug ins at all
[doublepost=1470888817][/doublepost][QUOTE="For faster songs, 9 times out of 10, you can get away with using CVVC banks in CV mode (if the oto is well done, then you don't even need to convert - or even use presamp - beyond adding a dash to notes after a rest and vv transitions)./QUOTE]

You could do that but it sacrifices smoothness though, it's inconvenient

Not really if the oto is well done and vv transitions exists. A CVVC bank requires being adept at CV otoing in the first place.
An example of a CV and a CVVC doing the same song:





Aside from the difference in tone and improved pronunciation in the (2nd) CVVC version, there's nothing to distinguish between these two banks in terms of smoothness. That's what you want to aim for when you make any type of bank. I would say it's especially important for CVVC since it's a bank type that allows the flexibility to choose how you use it (with VCV it's just convert and run with what you're given if you didn't oto plain CV and VC).

 

[na4a4a]

heads up: You can oto a CVVC bank quite well without knowing a single thing about plain old CV. Simply because the recording itself will constrain the values.

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But in my opinion both CVVC and VCV are pretty equal, both have upsides and downsides. With a decent oto both should be very smooth without any noticeable difference.
I find CVVC banks to be more consistent simply because the time-span between the beginning and end of a recording set is much shorter.