New Voice Bank Type for UTAU?

Discussion in 'Project Recruitment' started by WilyemAndK, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. WilyemAndK

    WilyemAndK Defender of Defoko

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    YES! An awesome idea, finally... that probably won't get many people excited at all...
    Anyway, yes, we have a new strategy for UTAU that might actually be... CREATIVE!
    It's Called 'VCCVCVECV' (The 'E' Stands for Extra Sound, as in... maybe a rolling 'R' sound, or full-mouth sound for, like, a random syllable.) Geez that's a lot of freaking sounds.
    It might sound a bit complex at first (which it is), but it will probably *cough* not *cough cough* end up pretty easy to do once you get the hang of it.
    We've already kind of started the RecList. Like basically all other RecLists, you need to start of with other RecLists. We decided to just start with basic CV, then to VC, then we go to CVC, then VCV, CVVC, VCCV, THEN WE GO RECORD A BUNCH OF EXTRA SOUNDS ATTACHED TO CV SOUNDS AND THEN WE DID MIXING IADSUFHOAIWHFIAER okay, you probably get the point by now... anyway, if anybody is willing to participate in this project, just reply to this post! And, oh, by the way, the RecList we have done still requires MAJOR improvements. We can send you the .zip file with all of the information and part of the reclist done. Thank you.

    ~ NOTE: AT ANY POINT IN TIME THE PROJECT MAY STOP. WATCH FOR ANY UPDATES ON THIS THREAD!
     
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  3. Zoku

    Zoku heta-tan campaigner 2k16 Defender of Defoko

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    but how does it work in utau
     
  4. Iris Dragonoure

    Iris Dragonoure zhong chenle's wife Defender of Defoko

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    Asking this too.
     
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  5. Tomato Hentai

    Tomato Hentai dont call me a veggie Defender of Defoko

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    Sounds like you'd hit the oto limit pretty easily with that.
     
  6. kimchi-tan

    kimchi-tan Your local Mikotard Global Mod Defender of Defoko

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    I'm sorry, but... is this supposed to be a satire on UTAU users attempting to create overly ambitious voicebank types and then drop it? To be honest, I can't take you seriously with the way you write and the lack of clear details on how the voicebank type works.

    Please make a thread on a more appropriate board such as the Random/Spam board in the Vaguely Irrelevant Posting section. If this is serious, I wish you good luck and I'm pretty sure most of us are waiting for more coherent details on how it'll work.

    Sorry if I sound mean here, but your words don't come across well :/
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
  7. WilyemAndK

    WilyemAndK Defender of Defoko

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    To all of you, no, this is not a joke。 In a way, it's similar to a VCV。。。 but。。。 umm。。。 ummmmm。。。 not...
    Let us try to explain better (We're not entirely good at explaining, you should know! English is NOT our first language!)
    So, what we mean by 'it's similar to VCV' is the aliasing。 The alias for the different sounds。For example, we could record a string of。。。 a_ba_ka_e_sa_i_rr (Rolling 'r' sound)_wa_o, we could alias one of those copies as... maybe... a rr, or maybe aえ (a e), or even ba かえ (ba ka e)。。。 of course, there is still much experimenting more needed.
    We know, we know, it's a bit confusing (TOTALLY just a bit)。 It runs in UTAU similar to VCV。 We've already run a few tests, not with all of the RecList strings we came up with, but almost all of them (THE OTOING WAS LIKE ABSOLUTE HELL)。 It does actually act very similar to VCV。。。 kinda。。。
    We hope you kind of get the idea, now。 If we need to clarify something for you, just ask us! kthx
     
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  8. Zoku

    Zoku heta-tan campaigner 2k16 Defender of Defoko

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    how does the [ba ka e] part work? can you include a screenshot of how it would look like in utau?
     
  9. Kiyoteru

    Kiyoteru Local Sensei Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    In OP you mentioned sharing a zip file containing further information and a partial reclist. Mind posting the download link so that people can have access?
     
  10. IrisFlower

    IrisFlower Precious Flower with Thorns Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    Hmm, up until the [ba ka e] part it sounds closer to CVVC than VCV to me. Since CVVC can have the VC alias like [a rr] and the VV alias like [aえ]. Is the [ba ka e] part supposed to be like...one word or phrase? Like the voice would sing "baka e" in UTAU using only one note?

    How is this going to build or improve on the methods we already have available to us?

    Is this something that will be complicated and is more aimed at experienced users like me? Or is it going to be newbie friendly that most people can pick up? I'd like a more straight answer to this question in particular, please. As straight as you can manage. If it's not going to be easy do you plan on making tutorials for people?
     
  11. aoi・kurt

    aoi・kurt Shoutbox Lurker™ Defender of Defoko

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    Second this post^ I suggest making a video since most of us here are already at least semi-confuzzled lol
     
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  12. WilyemAndK

    WilyemAndK Defender of Defoko

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    Ba ka e works with the OTOing. if you were to want an UTAU sing Baswi ba Kae (just making something up here lol), it could sing pretty smooth using pitch bends and other pitch-related things.

    It's not exactly beginner-friendly. Like, at all. Perhaps for experienced UTAU users, such as ourselves, it could get easier to adapt to. It really depends on your experience, like how we have already previously stated.
    It can probably help making songs sound much smoother for people who like to do things involving the UTAU-HUMAN PROJECT.

    Any more questions? We're always here.
     
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  13. na4a4a

    na4a4a Outwardly Opinionated and Harshly Critical Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    I don't see a point in mixing CV, VC, CVVC, and VCCV.
    Actually, VCCV and CVVC are the same just VCCV is more of a trademark for a specific reclist.

    You can actually record a VCV list and get all your CV, VC (CVVC) and VCV combinations. And it wouldn't be a "new" recording method just a hybrid of existing methods which people have already been doing for a while now.

    You shouldn't have more than one syllable in a single note because you lose the ability to finely control the timing of the vocals. It will result in something very clumsy and difficult to control. Even commercial vocal synthesis really only works on the principle of CVVC and VCV combinations (sort of, without going into detail).
     
  14. Piia

    Piia Retired User Retired User Defender of Defoko

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    私は confused です。。。RIP MY JAPANESE
    Well, you sound pretty serious with it right now, so I hope the best for you and your new UTAU VB type ^^ The problem is that the 'rr' part throws me off, what is the purpose of that?
     
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  15. Aura Autumnus

    Aura Autumnus Ruko's Ruffians Defender of Defoko

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    well, be careful because sonorants (l,r,w,y stuff, even trills) pollute the previous and following vowel somehow. It's not a plain vowel.

    Guys, we have to see the difference between these two things: way of recording and way of otoing. CVC is a way of recording, but not way of otoing unless you do include the final consonant and do not cut it in configuration. CV VC can exist from CVC, CV_VC, VCV recordings. VCV can be both way of recording as well as otoing because it gets all the three elements (vowel-consonant-vowel) in the oto.

    Summary:
    - Ways of recording: CV, VC, CVC, VCV, CV_VC...
    - Ways of otoing: CV, VC (normally extra stuff to CV), VCV (for continuous overlapping), CVVC (if the purpose is to have all of the VC transitions for the CV segments of that library), VCCV (even though it's made up, consider it an advanced CVVC configuration and more complete in terms of CC and C_C chunks)...

    In fact, my multilingual voicebank going on doesn't even have a specific name because it works as in vocaloid but with some VCCV feel
     
  16. WilyemAndK

    WilyemAndK Defender of Defoko

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    I hate explaining in English -.-
    I'm sorry if you cannot understand us... We still aren't fluent in English...

    * The trilling 'R' consonant is just an extra, for different types of sounds. It will be recording with all vowels, and we will record it backwards as well, with the vowel in front. (Example: Arr, err, irr, orr, urr, rra, rre, rri, rro, rru)
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 25, 2017 ---
    Yup, totally. 100%
     
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  17. Piia

    Piia Retired User Retired User Defender of Defoko

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    Its okay that youre not fluent in English; its not your first language so we understand why ^-^.
    Ahhh, so like, it's just an extra thing like I mean... It's not really used in Japanese but you'll add it for future purposes, like that? Boi well I hope nothing but the best for your New bb type :smile: :wink:
     
  18. Mougeki Mero

    Mougeki Mero Defoko's Slaves Defender of Defoko

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    Uh...I dont really get it
    If I understood correctly it looks like a mix of VCV and CVVC (cause iyou record both a CV and a VC)...I think you'd get similar results by recording a VCV and edit the oto to get "VCs" and "CVs" I think.
    Possible like this (I test myself on my VCV V:shades::

    ---You have a "kakakikakukeka" sample if you edit the oto VCV you basically have:

    *- ka (CV)
    *a ka, a ki, i ka, a ku, u ke, e ka (VCV)

    And then you edit the VCV oto by putting the offset way earlier and you get:

    *a k, i k, u k, e k (VC)

    ~For the extra sounds you want you could record other VCV strings for then
    ------------------------------------
    Unless that is not what you meant. Then I'd be glad to listen more about this project. Not trying to let you down nor anything like that.

    Actually in my personal opnion for Japanese (not sure on other languages) CV and VCV are the original styles. CVVC surely exists on its own but it is only a different way of recording a VCV imo. VCCV is CVVC actually, but specific to a kind of reclist.

    -------------------------
     
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  19. WilyemAndK

    WilyemAndK Defender of Defoko

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    Sort of.It's hard to explain, but you do get the idea pretty well...
     
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  20. WilyemAndK

    WilyemAndK Defender of Defoko

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    UPDATE: The note velocity feature in UTAU is no longer just in beta, it is now completely released! We can use this feature is order to make notes such as [ba ka e] to sound faster in pronunciation.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2017 ---
    P/S, thank you to all RecList providers for this project!
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2017 ---
    We have also changed the idea of adding in a VCCV RecList to the VCCVCVECV RecList, because A) We can't find a Japanese VCCV RecList, and we don't know how to go about creating one, and, like what @_caustic_ said, CVVC is very much like VCCV. So why waste that much time?
    However, we will still add in an extra text document to record from, just for other people to write on. If any of you have any links for VCCV Japanese RecLists, please send it to us! ^ w ^
    Arigato-Gozaimashita!
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2017 ---
    The download link for the RecList has arrived! Except you guys need to do a lot of the work ;-; Sorry about that...
    http://www.mediafire.com/file/adx2k...rn_Users_-_Act_One_-_Copyright_WilyemAndK.zip
     
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  21. Kiyoteru

    Kiyoteru Local Sensei Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    I've decided to take a look at this reclist, and I have several questions and comments.

    You often say "we" in your posts. How many people does your team consist of? And what are your native languages?

    What language is this for? Japanese? If this is meant for something else, it's unclear. If this reclist is intended to be multilingual, I would advise against it, due to different languages having different pronunciations for even the same phonemes. However, if multilinguality is the aim, then perhaps it ought not to be Japanese-centered. A more neutral base should be found for the language group that you're focusing on.

    What is the purpose of the reclist? Is it efficiency in recording/otoing? Ease of use? That too is unclear.

    What is your past experience in writing reclists? This seems to be a large, ambitious project. So, what is your history of success with simpler work?

    Do you have any examples of this reclist? Voicebanks are ideal, but audio samples work too. I would like to know what the end result is meant to look and sound like.

    Why do you include lists that are written by other people, instead of making a list yourself that contains all the samples you want? I understand if you don't know yet how to structure it, but there's quite a lot of redundancy between them all. Your 2 lists by itself doesn't seem to add anything that the other lists don't already have.

    It makes no sense that you have not one, but two blank parts for the end user to write on their own. If you are creating a reclist, it should be a complete resource on its own by the time its released. This is an unfinished list, so I will forgive that. However, no end user should be expected to write the list. As the reclist writer, it is YOUR job to do that! Even so, it would be understandable to have "user entry" sections if the purpose of the list is to be user-expandable, and you provide full information on how the user is meant to expand the list in accordance with the rules and structure of the existing list. The downside is that it creates incompatibility between multiple users of the list. Some voicebanks may have expansions that others do not. This is the situation that happens when many people create their own lists in the first place, and one of the main purposes of releasing reclists for widespread is to alleviate that problem.

    Finally, how is this meant to be OTO'd? If you don't already have an OTO, having a plan for the OTO is still just as much part of the reclist as the recording part itself. It determines how the reclist works, really. Again, if it's simply a collection of lists all being put into the same folder, much of the oto will overlap and it's actually quite wasteful, of oto space and file space.

    A reclist writer needs to take responsibility for their own project.
     
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