Questions about configuring an UTAU on Mac

RaccoonButler

Founder of The Church of Mawarine Shuu
Defender of Defoko
So I know windows utau are generally useable by everyone, but I've heard that Mac Utau can sound odd on Windows. I have to use a mac so I was wondering:

I know the main difference is the oto being a txt file and all, but if I have someone on windows do the spef files and frqs, will there be any issues? And will people on windows still be able to use the oto in txt form?

And what other problems would windows users run into while using them?

Thanks in advance
 

수연 <Suyeon>

Your friendly neighborhood koreaboo trash
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
I think spef files are exclusively an UTAU-synth thing. oto on windows are an .ini file and don't include the #Charset:UTF-8 that's found in oto_ini.txt (UTAU-synth's oto), so that will have to be a separate file if you want compatibility for both. As for the way the utau sounds, unless the frq files are messed up, there's pretty much no difference (and it's an easy - if tedious fix).

ex.

If anything, I think what messes up an UTAU bank between versions is the filenames more often than not. I've had friends unable to use commonly used UTAU such as Ritsu in UTAU-Synth (for some explicable reason - I don't have a mac, so I couldn't tell you why) and I've had to personally fix a multi-pitch VCV that came from a mac to a pc for a friend because zip files make hiragana encoding into mojibake.
 

Tomato Hentai

dont call me a veggie
Defender of Defoko
If you're really worried, you can always run the Windows version of UTAU under WINE to make sure stuff sounds the way it should. Windows UTAU can function kinda weird under WINE, but it shouldn't be too huge of an issue.
Also, if the voicebank sounds radically different when used on the Windows and Mac versions of UTAU, you can always make a copy of the oto.ini with small changes that make it sound better/normal on the Windows version of UTAU.
 
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Nohkara

Pronouns: He/him
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Just make sure that FRQ files are OK and having oto.ini file. The most idiotic easiest way to create "win UTAU compatible oto.ini" is that

1) you DL this thing from here
http://utaforum.net/resources/utau-dev-tools-for-mac.165/

2) ok, now make a copy of oto.ini file from any UTAU that has oto.ini file (you can for example take Teto's oto file but doesn't matter much?)

3) now, to open that copy of oto.ini by TextEdit program.

4) open your completed oto_ini.txt file and copy ALL from it (also included that #Charset thing from beginning)!

5) from oto.ini file remove all and paste oto_ini.txt's information to it.

6) put that copy of oto.ini to your utau's VB folder (same plase where oto_ini.txt).

7) now open "setparam for Mac" program that you downloaded at 1) (it's totally save to use, don't worry!)

8) on setparam when you open it select your VB's folder and then it's "oto.ini" file then move one's sounds
offset setting like 1-10ms then "save" that oto.ini file and then it ask that "all ready exits oto.ini file, want to replase it" => select yes.

9) now you have oto.ini file that it's totally fine to use in Win UTAU.

PS. Because sometimes in Win UTAU hiragana file named Mac UTAU can become totally weird, so, avoid any short of "technical issues" in Win UTAU, it's the best to encode your Mac UTAU VB as romaji in my opinion.
 

Nohkara

Pronouns: He/him
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Go
Just make sure that FRQ files are OK and having oto.ini file. The most idiotic easiest way to create "win UTAU compatible oto.ini" is that

1) you DL this thing from here
http://utaforum.net/resources/utau-dev-tools-for-mac.165/

2) ok, now make a copy of oto.ini file from any UTAU that has oto.ini file (you can for example take Teto's oto file but doesn't matter much?)

3) now, to open that copy of oto.ini by TextEdit program.

4) open your completed oto_ini.txt file and copy ALL from it (also included that #Charset thing from beginning)!

5) from oto.ini file remove all and paste oto_ini.txt's information to it.

6) put that copy of oto.ini to your utau's VB folder (same plase where oto_ini.txt).

7) now open "setparam for Mac" program that you downloaded at 1) (it's totally save to use, don't worry!)

8) on setparam when you open it select your VB's folder and then it's "oto.ini" file then move one's sounds
offset setting like 1-10ms then "save" that oto.ini file and then it ask that "all ready exits oto.ini file, want to replase it" => select yes.

9) now you have oto.ini file that it's totally fine to use in Win UTAU.

PS. Because sometimes in Win UTAU hiragana file named Mac UTAU can become totally weird, so, avoid any short of "technical issues" in Win UTAU, it's the best to encode your Mac UTAU VB as romaji in my opinion.
nna add that it's totally fine that ALIAS are in hiragana in Mac UTAU but yeah... It's recommend to name your was files (aka encode) in romaji, unless you have a Windows PC to fix possible hiragana mojibake from hiragana encoded Mac UTAU.
 

HixaiU

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
I think spef files are exclusively an UTAU-synth thing. oto on windows are an .ini file and don't include the #Charset:UTF-8 that's found in oto_ini.txt (UTAU-synth's oto), so that will have to be a separate file if you want compatibility for both. As for the way the utau sounds, unless the frq files are messed up, there's pretty much no difference (and it's an easy - if tedious fix).

ex.

If anything, I think what messes up an UTAU bank between versions is the filenames more often than not. I've had friends unable to use commonly used UTAU such as Ritsu in UTAU-Synth (for some explicable reason - I don't have a mac, so I couldn't tell you why) and I've had to personally fix a multi-pitch VCV that came from a mac to a pc for a friend because zip files make hiragana encoding into mojibake.


lol don't use zip. Thats death to any bank we learned this the hard way use zZip for mac its free on the app store. Rice cracker doesn't work on mac because the bank breaks on there (tried to myself never worked). I would suggest using a windows PC to OTO over a mac too many issues have arisen from using a mac. Also you can just remove the .txt file and use the .ini file, it generates both.
 
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lunavi

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
Dedicated Mac user popping in here to dish the Mac side of the equation, because I have had more than my fair share of fun trying to make my Mac-built voicebanks compatible with PC UTAU. There are several steps needed to make a Mac-built voicebank work properly on a PC. It’s a bit of a process, but not that difficult, once you figure out exactly which wrenches have fallen between which gears. Here's the laundry list of cross-compatibility issues I ran into, and what I did to fix them.

- Converting OTOs for PC Use -
The primary reason a Mac-built voicebank will fail to work on a PC is the OTO. PC UTAU uses ShiftJIS encoding, while UTAU-Synth uses UTF-8. Thus, when a Mac-built voicebank is imported into UTAU, the voicebank is non-functional, and the OTO will appear completely mojibakke’d.

(Fortunately, this doesn't go both ways. When UTAU-Synth loads a PC-built voicebank, the first thing it does is automatically create a copy of the OTO.ini as a file it dubs “oto_ini.txt.” Any updates or changes made to the OTO in UTAU-Synth will be made to the new oto_ini.txt file — the original OTO.ini will be left untouched.)

Converting a Mac-made OTO for PC usage is actually fairly simple, once you know how to do it.

1) Open the oto_ini.txt file in a text editor, preferably one that knows made for coding. I use and highly recommend TextWrangler for this — it’s amazing, and also free (made by the good folks who make BBEdit.)

2) Create a new document, then copy-&-paste the contents of the oto_ini.txt file into the new document. Go ahead and remove the top line, “#Charset:UTF-8.” There’s no reason to leave it in, and leaving it in may actually cause issues when UTAU tries to load the voicebank.

3) Save the new file as “oto.ini” using “Shift JIS” as the encoding type.

Important Note: if you encode in hiragana or katakana, it’s possible that when you try to save the file in Shift JIS encoding, the program may refuse to do so, citing the presence of “incompatible characters.” When I had this issue, it was the V and Vy sounds, aliased in hiragana. I opted to rename the affected files and aliases in either romaji or katakana, or both. If I have learned anything from this experience, it's that the “Find and Replace” tool is your friend.

- Configuring Multipitch Voicebanks -
One of the most drastic differences between UTAU and UTAU-Synth is how they handle multipitch/multi-folder voicebanks. In order to recognize the files in each folder, UTAU requires that each folder have it’s own, individual, local OTO.ini for the files within it, basically making each folder it’s own little voicebank.

UTAU-Synth users may find this an alien concept (I know I did,) because UTAU-Synth has no such requirement. As far as it’s concerned, the only OTO it cares about is the primary OTO located in the voicebank’s main folder. It completely ignores the other sub-folder OTOs.

Creating OTOs for subfolders can be a pain, but not much harder than creating an OTO.ini from an oto_ini.txt file. Copy, paste, and exercise some caution when deleting. Tactical use of Find and Replace can and will save a lot of time. And sanity.

- Compression Issues
Some compression programs are incapable of dealing with hiragana or katakana characters that include dakuten or handakuten — those file names end up corrupted, and UTAU can’t deal with them. As a result, any sounds with filenames or aliases using those characters end up dropped.

The solution — use a compresion program that knows what it’s doing. For this, I strongly recommend Keka. It does it's job, does it extremely well, and also happens to be free. Can't argue with that.

On the flip side, Mac users who can't use PC voicebanks are likely being slighted by their decompression software. Not all decompression software can handle ShiftJIS, and the end result of trying to decompress an archive full of files encoded or written in ShiftJIS is lots and lots of mojibakke. I highly recommend The Unarchiver -- a decompression program capable of handling lots of archive formats, and most importantly, files with foreign character sets, like Japanese. It's also free. (If you're noticing a theme here, it's that I love not having to spend money on awesome software.)

- Testing Things Out in Wine - (Revised)
From my personal experience, UTAU can sometimes be finicky in Wine. I used Wine a bit on my previous computer (an older machine, running Mac OSX 10.6.) -- not all resamplers functioned in the Wine environment; some crashed UTAU outright. I have no idea if this was a product of the program trying to run on an older machine , but the fact that it was an older machine running an older OS is worth mentioning. Regardless, unless you change the locale of the Wine environment to Japanese, you won’t be able to use any voicebanks that aren’t encoded and aliased in romaji. (EDIT: I didn't know how to do this, until KLAD popped in to explain how below.) Refer to KLAD's post beneath this one for how to do that using Wineskin.
 
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Kiyoteru

UtaForum power user
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
You guys have said everything I've wanted to say and more. I think the only thing I need to add is that there is a way to run windows UTAU under proper locale in wine. I personally use wineskin.
After installing UTAU in the wineskin, go to advanced, and enter this.
upload_2016-6-15_22-12-43.png
Code:
export LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8

UTAU itself should run fine. I'm also able to use plugins like iroiro and the frqeditor. Kana works fine in the oto and in the UST.

One more thing- I had timing issues at one point, which were fixed by going to Tools, Options, Rendering and checking "Note length calculated by GUI front end". This basically sets you up not only to test your banks for compatibility, but really to replace UTAU-Synth. (I still use UTAU-Synth out of convenience... but I definitely run UTAU in wine when I make USTs for distribution).
 

lunavi

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
You guys have said everything I've wanted to say and more. I think the only thing I need to add is that there is a way to run windows UTAU under proper locale in wine. I personally use wineskin.
After installing UTAU in the wineskin, go to advanced, and enter this.
View attachment 2457
Code:
export LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8

UTAU itself should run fine. I'm also able to use plugins like iroiro and the frqeditor. Kana works fine in the oto and in the UST.

... I honestly can't thank you enough for posting this. Seriously. I've been using WineBottler, and I spent an absurd amount of time plodding through Google search results, trying to figure out how to do this. You rock. :love:

(Revised my previous post to reflect what KLAD posted, and clarify a bit on my experiences with Wine. Forgive me, I'm half-asleep, lol.)
 
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Tomato Hentai

dont call me a veggie
Defender of Defoko
lol don't use zip. Thats death to any bank we learned this the hard way use zZip for mac its free on the app store. Rice cracker doesn't work on mac because the bank breaks on there (tried to myself never worked). I would suggest using a windows PC to OTO over a mac too many issues have arisen from using a mac. Also you can just remove the .txt file and use the .ini file, it generates both.
Don't put them in ZIPs at all. You should use RARs instead as RARs encode filenames in UTF-8 which preserves filenames.
 
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수연 <Suyeon>

Your friendly neighborhood koreaboo trash
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Don't put them in ZIPs at all. You should use RARs instead as RARs encode filenames in UTF-8 which preserves filenames.

I agree - and it compresses better in any case (I wish 7zip had the ability to compress this archive type natively). The only downside to rar is that no OS opens it natively without an additional program to install - and like @lunavi alluded to: this is a another round of trial and error. Really, just a small matter of convenience: double click and drag to /voice without issue on your end OR your oto coming out completely borked on every computer that's not yours - there's no telling when you use zip.
 
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Tomato Hentai

dont call me a veggie
Defender of Defoko
I agree - and it compresses better in any case (I wish 7zip had the ability to compress this archive type natively). The only downside to rar is that no OS opens it natively without an additional program to install. Really, just a small matter of convenience: double click and drag to /voice without issue on your end OR your oto coming out completely borked on every computer that's not yours - there's no telling when you use zip.
There is always Peazip, which IIRC can deal with more formats than 7zip can. The Windows default archive program that's built into Explorer sucks anyways. I dunno about the default file archiver for Mac, though.
 

lunavi

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
I've had my banks archived in ZIP format since I switched to using Keka. At least two people have downloaded them since, and reported they opened without any compression-related issues. On the other hand, the compression software I used previously -- the one that caused the compression-related issues -- was archiving in RAR format. That said, I think it's entirely possible that it's not the compression format that's causing things to break, so much as the compression software used for archiving -- or whatever decompression software the end user is using to unpack those files.
 
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Tomato Hentai

dont call me a veggie
Defender of Defoko
I've had my banks archived in ZIP format since I switched to using Keka. At least two people have downloaded them since, and reported they opened without any compression-related issues. On the other hand, the compression software I used previously -- the one that caused the compression-related issues -- was archiving in RAR format. That said, I think it's entirely possible that it's not the compression format that's causing things to break, so much as the compression software used for archiving -- or whatever decompression software the end user is using to unpack those files.
What kind of compression-related issues? It may have been that it was compressing in RAR5 and the software the people who downloaded it were using a program that only had support for RAR4 and earlier iterations of RAR.
 

lunavi

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
What kind of compression-related issues? It may have been that it was compressing in RAR5 and the software the people who downloaded it were using a program that only had support for RAR4 and earlier iterations of RAR.

I was using SimplyRAR before I switched to Keka. I use hiragana (and occasional katakana) aliasing and file names, and all the voicebanks I archived with SimplyRAR were dropping sounds — specifically, all the sounds that had dakuten and handakuten in their characters (Z, B, G, J, D, P, and V sounds, in both hiragana and katakana.)

I should also add that I never saw this glitch myself — when I downloaded the affected archives and unpacked them, they worked fine in UTAU-Synth. (This was well before I started using UTAU in Wine, so I never had a chance to test them out that way.) Only two people reported the issue to me (out of who knows how many people downloaded -- one voicebank was downloaded well over 20 times, according to MediaFire’s stats), and both use PCs. (One of the reporters told me they were using Windows 8.0, UTAU version is 0.4.18.)

I actually have no idea if SimplyRAR compresses in RAR5 or RAR4. Google tells me that the program’s no longer supported — I don’t think it’s been updated since 2005 or 2006 — so, maybe that explains a few things. ^^;
 
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