Resolved Remove Autocorrect

Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by Pratzelwurm, Oct 19, 2016.

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  1. Pratzelwurm

    Pratzelwurm Residential Cat Defender of Defoko

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    That level of stubborness is baffling to me. Nobody asked for the autocorrect, nobody likes the autocorrect. I've sucked up this bullshit for the past two years or however long it's been in place, but quite frankly I'm sick of it. I'm sick of being stressed out about whether or not what I type will be changed without my consent the moment I hit the "enter." Again, it is not the job of an admin to correct my grammar, and I am still of the belief that I am not wrong.

    This forum is supposed to be a place for people in the community to express themselves, so what is the use in enforcing one individual's opinions of trivial grammar debates on everyone else? All it does is create unnesisary tenshion amongst the userbase.

    EDIT: I found this under the terms and conditions page.
    Which I guess means that we give them permission to alter our text, but the feautute is nonetheless useless, irritating, and overall unwanted.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
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  2. Tomato Hentai

    Tomato Hentai dont call me a veggie Defender of Defoko

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  3. Pratzelwurm

    Pratzelwurm Residential Cat Defender of Defoko

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    Well, that explains how the autocorrect was put in place, but there is still no way for users of this forum to turn it off. Now knowing that there is an option built into the app to allow users to do this, I see no reason why it cannot be implemented here.
     
  4. Tomato Hentai

    Tomato Hentai dont call me a veggie Defender of Defoko

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    XenForo has it's own built-in profanity censor that admins can alter, this is it's own thing entirely. I just linked it here in case an admin who has server access and is allowed to install plugins ends up looking at this thread.
     
  5. Pratzelwurm

    Pratzelwurm Residential Cat Defender of Defoko

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    Ohh I see. I misunderstood the post; sorry about that.
     
  6. Tomato Hentai

    Tomato Hentai dont call me a veggie Defender of Defoko

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    No problemo.
     
  7. Halo

    Halo Honor Guard Administrator Defender of Defoko

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    I don't know for sure if the other admins have seen this.
    I'm biting.

    Filters are both an attempt to keep the forum PG-13 (as we have kids here. Same reason we try not to let blatant adult content get a pass in the chat) and for jokes. Some jokes are really old now, so I'll do a sweep and simplify/refine as they're either wearing thin, or inside jokes that the broader community no longer gets.

    Misinfo on the mods never being here: I'm here every weekday at least. A few other mods are here when they can be.

    on Skype: a lot of us do not use Skype any longer, due to it being horribly broken. If you want to contact us to have us deal with something ASAP, use PMs (since we get an email notif, so even if we're at work we can deal with it). But if you just want to bring up a suggestion; most of us now use discord. Mine is #5413. Contact me any time.

    Finally. RE: consent. I feel for you. I feel similarly when it comes to things that change the entire meaning and context of a sentence (thanks autocorrect). But you shouldn't be using words that get filtered, and in a forum context this is a totally normal feature to have. Again though, I'll do a sweep to make sure that it gets cleaned up so normal sentences don't get messed up in the process and minimize intrusiveness.

    @Tomato Hentai
    Thanks for the link. We'll consider it.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 30, 2016 ---
    ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
    There, all fixed. If you don't swear, mention certain illegal things, or attempt to start a fight, you won't have anything intrusive. Then you wont have an issue.

    Also we have kaomoji in here, like f liptable (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ and s hrugemoji ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
    So its not all bad. Also, you can press preview to make sure nothing we're getting changed without you intending it to before you post. If it's changing a URL or something, PM an admin please.
     
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  8. Pratzelwurm

    Pratzelwurm Residential Cat Defender of Defoko

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    Thanks so much for replying! The censors are much better, but it's still changing words like UTAU,s to UTAU and P,ocaloid to Polkaloid.
     
  9. Halo

    Halo Honor Guard Administrator Defender of Defoko

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    Will talk to the other admins about UTAU. That was Hentai's thing iirc.
    Polkaloid is changed for legal reasons and to discourage discussion of the topic here. If you wish to mention Polkaloid please do so offsite, talkng about it excessively here could eventually resort in actions against the forum by third parties. That unfortunately will not be changed.
     
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  10. Pratzelwurm

    Pratzelwurm Residential Cat Defender of Defoko

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    That's fair. Again, thank you for replying.
     
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  11. Tomato Hentai

    Tomato Hentai dont call me a veggie Defender of Defoko

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    Simply talking about P ocaloid is very VERY unlikely to make legal action be taken against the forum. Now, if people were linking to P ocaloided voicebanks, then that'd be a different story.
     
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  12. Hentai

    Hentai Technical Admin Administrator Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    I think OP has the wrong idea here. The wordfilters in place are NOT 'autocorrect', they are straight up censorship in part of the staff. In fact the XenForo module that manages our filterlist is called "Censorship". Many of the world filters are in place to encourage/discourage specific behaviors, whether they be discussion or word usage.

    While you are generally free to express yourself however you like in public, here on UtaForum such speech may be moderated for a variety of purposes, either for rule enforcement or content/community "curation". There are a variety of tools the staff uses to curate behaviors. For example the UtaBucks system is there to encourage positive interactions by rewarding them with points. Likewise the wordfilter system is there to discourages specific speech (aka censorship).

    Polkaloid filter is there not only for legal purposes, though that is part of it, but also to discourage discussion on a frowned upon topic. We have very few rules on UtaForum but one of them is respecting TOSes and Polkaloid certainly violates them and I would rather you not have those dicussions on UtaForum. This simply isn't the proper venue for it.

    While it is easy to bypass the wordfilter I would also like to remind everyone gaming, manipulating, or evading forum mechanics is against the rules and if you are purposely going out of your way to bypass the profanity filter it may result in more severe punishment as you would not only be violating the PG13/respect members rules, but also the evading forum mechanics one.

    Like Polkaloid the pluralized UTAU filter is there to shape specific behavior. I would like to remind you that there is an entire family of "irregular plurals" in English (aircraft, fish, sheep, species, sushi, ninja, etc.). Many irregular plurals include nouns borrowed words from languages that do not pluralize (like Japanese). I consider UTAU to be one of these.

    You are welcome to challenge me on this, but unless I can hear a good counterargument I will opt to leave the current filter in place. Before you state it, as it has been brought up before, if it is an issue with plural ambiguity... it isn't. Words don't exist in a vacuum and, like other irregular plurals, you can tell if an irregular word is plural or not based on the context of its use.

    For the record I do visit, and I don't just lurk, simply the kind of tasks I do are usually in the background. You may not see it but our registrations are currently set to 'manual approval' in an effort to combat SPAM. Every new member registration is manually approved by staff. I may not post/reply all the time but I do log in, if only to view reports, clear the registration queue, and check my @mentions & PMs.

    Finally, I usually log in on Monday, Wednesday, & Friday as those are days I don't have school and I can usually goofing off on the internet and visit UtaForum at work. This means if I am particularly busy at work I may miss a week. In future if something needs to be brought to my immediate attention feel free to DM me on Twitter as that will send a push notification to my cell phone. I no longer actively use Skype as I, and most of the other staff, have migrated to Discord.
     
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  13. Pratzelwurm

    Pratzelwurm Residential Cat Defender of Defoko

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    There are plenty of Japanese words that are pluralized with an "s" in English (kotatsus, haikus, bentos, tsunamis, kimonos, etc). The integration of non-English words into the language is pretty much hit or miss whether their agreement will match English grammar or the grammar of the original language. The correct usage is typically decided by what the majority of people say, which can change over time as language evolves. English is very flexible like that. In the case of UTAU, where about half of people pluralize as UTAU,s and half pluralize as UTAU, it's hard to say which one is actually right, and that's not even taking into account the whole prescriptivist vs descriptivist argument on whether correctness in language is universal or subjective (personally, I fall into the latter). My point is, it's not up to one person to decide what is correct or incorrect, and it's certainly not the forum's job to correct other's grammar in the first place.
     
  14. Hentai

    Hentai Technical Admin Administrator Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    I reject your argument that "English if flexible". English has rules, many choose to ignore them but that does not make it correct. I reject your argument that its not the forum's job to enforce grammar. In fact we have a rule specifically about using proper grammar and limiting chat speech. I reject your cultural appropriation. Let us respect our Japanese loanwords and treat them as they are Japanese words we are borrowing.

    I would argue that almost every single example word listed is incorrect. You could argue "tsunamis" is correct, this word has existed in English for over 100 years (first referenced in English in 1905) and has since stopped being a loanword but an English word in itself, thus subject to English pluralization rules. The others however I feel are far to young and haven't yet found themselves into mainstream English language, and thus should still be treated as the loanwords they are, following the rules of their source language.

    From my point of view you can't seperate loanwords from their source language so arbitrarily. Remember its not that the Japanese words aren't being pluralized, they are still plural, its just that their plural and singular forms are spelled the same. You are proposing we add an -s to a word arbitrarily, because 'that is how its done in English'. To help you understand my POV let us try a thought experiment.

    What about gendered language? English is technically a genderless language, it does not have grammatical gender like many Indo-European languages. If I were to enforce this genderless language concept onto a Spanish loanword it would be like using the word "hermano" to refer to my sister, and then insisting it is correct because in English gendered word forms don't exist.

    This is what your argument "because that is how we do it in English" argument looks like to me. You are borrowing Japanese words and arbitrarily forcing your own concepts what you view to be correct grammar on to them. I reject your grammatical appropriation. You can't just force your own languages rules onto other languages words. Its a bit ethnocentric don't you think?

    Finally I reject your argument that its not the forum's job to correct grammar. In fact in my above post I argue that it is precisely the opposite. It the staff's mandate to manage the community, part of this is curate content and set guidelines to shape and guide discussion we would like to see on UtaForum. I have decided that this is a grammar rule I want to encourage, thus the wordfilter exists.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
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  15. chunter

    chunter Ruko's Ruffians Defender of Defoko

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    It is your right to legislate morality and reject the truth all you want, but all that will lead to is a permanent record that you were a prescriptionist. It's your site to run as you see fit, because my opinion hasn't changed, everybody knows what was really said, and, learning to work out social situations like this is an important part of getting from teens to 30s. You'll all get through it in your own ways.
     
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  16. SOHBlue

    SOHBlue Master of Doom Defender of Defoko

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    I love me some good grammar and proper English (as you can tell from the start of this sentence), but I don't feel there's a need to get our Tetos mashed here.

    I can't contribute much to the conversation, but as a member for eight months now, I would like to say that I love the little jokes in the censors. I also appreciate all the care that has went into making this website. I'd say it's pretty impressive and not necessarily rudely intrusive or too preachy.
    Just kind of a normal and sometimes clever way of letting users know to keep things clean and conversation casual.

    I don't swear in the first place, so I can't say it matters much to me, but I do like the more creative censors as I've said.

    At any rate, I believe this topic may have gotten a little too tight and being the Chatbox Creeper/comforter and supporter I am, I'm just gonna leave some cute pictures in a spoiler, don't mind me.

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    Ruko4Life
     
  17. Pratzelwurm

    Pratzelwurm Residential Cat Defender of Defoko

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    Meh, I feel like I've made my argument clear enough, but if you won't change it then you won't change it. I find your argument very condescending, but I've honestly got more important stuff to worry about than picking it apart, especially since it's clear it won't amount to anything.
     
  18. Hentai

    Hentai Technical Admin Administrator Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    In that case I will go ahead and mark this "Resolved" and close the thread.
     
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