What Kind of VB is Best for a Beginning

Discussion in 'Help and Advice' started by Piia, Jan 10, 2017.

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What kind of VB should I Start Out With?

  1. CV

    25 vote(s)
    92.6%
  2. VCV

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. CVVC

    4 vote(s)
    14.8%
  4. VCCV

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Piia

    Piia Ritsu's Renegades Defender of Defoko

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    Hello everyone,

    As probably some of you know, I'm planning to make an UTAU (~yay~)
    But I'm still not sure which one to start out with. Could you guys suggest?

    Thank you very much for your help I really appreciate it~ <3
     
  2.  
  3. HulderBulder

    HulderBulder Ritsu's Renegades Defender of Defoko

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    I'd say CV japanese with vowel blends. really short and simple to record, easy to use, and not a ton of lines to oto. The only downside would be that there would be some choppyness, and unlike vcv oto you can't have a uniform oto and just drag the start point.
     
  4. Kassandra

    Kassandra Guest

    CV makes sense to start out with, especially recording wise because it's very simple and basic.
     
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  5. Kiyoteru

    Kiyoteru Local Sensei / Kuya Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    A CV bank is an excellent place to start for your very first bank, but after that, I recommend that your second step be CVVC.
     
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  6. UTAUlikeVOCALOID

    UTAUlikeVOCALOID Ritsu's Renegades Defender of Defoko

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    wait what, why not VCV?
     
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  7. Kiyoteru

    Kiyoteru Local Sensei / Kuya Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    VCV is only practical for Japanese and similarly simple languages, while the concepts learned in CVVC can be applied to other languages.
    Additionally, the reclist for CVVC is much smaller, and has less to OTO as a result.
    While more effort has to be put into using the banks, there's tools available that make it just as easy (or easier) than using a VCV, like presamp.
    Though, doing the editing by hand has the advantage of giving you more control over things like the timing of consonants, which can be useful for tuning.

    The tradition of doing "CV first, VCV second" is only because of that being the order in which they were invented in the past. However, that doesn't mean it's the best order for people now to be following.
     
  8. UTAUlikeVOCALOID

    UTAUlikeVOCALOID Ritsu's Renegades Defender of Defoko

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    Ah okay...well thanks for the info
     
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  9. Animé Fan

    Animé Fan Head of the Shonen Academy Defender of Defoko

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    Everybody began with CV, including yours truly. Once you start getting the hang of UTAU, you can try out the latter three.
     
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  10. ☆彡иα∂ιѕ☆彡

    ☆彡иα∂ιѕ☆彡 Ash Ketchum Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    CV is a good start, it gives you time to master the oto, and then you can move on to VCV because it's just like CV oto wise, only you have a vowel before the consenant. However recording wise i'd also reccomend CVVC because it takes wayyyyyyy less time to record and the banks takes up less space
     
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  11. 수연 <Suyeon>

    수연 <Suyeon> Your friendly neighborhood koreaboo trash Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    CV first - gives you a chance to learn how to oto, learn how to pronounce things without rage-quitting. If you can master this, then you're set for life as far as other styles of configuration.
    CVVC second - If you plan on ever trying more than Japanese, then move onto this style. More people will be hesitant to dl your bank (saying "idk how to use it") but it's easy to use if you can get presamp to work or convert with autocvvc (if you experience slow rendering cause you use fresamp or w/e then download nmasao1's resampler patch to speed things up).
    VCV - only useful for Japanese and other really simple languages. I wouldn't recommend this method, esp. not for beginners.
     
  12. LilyoftheValley

    LilyoftheValley Your local flower girl Defender of Defoko

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    I started with CV then moved to VCV. I don't oto myself so I made the jump to VCV after I learned more about recording.
     
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  13. ☆彡иα∂ιѕ☆彡

    ☆彡иα∂ιѕ☆彡 Ash Ketchum Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    that's what i did. i started recording cv and then scrapped it and jumped to VCV after studying up
     
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  14. ・✧ Titsu ✧・

    ・✧ Titsu ✧・ The Space Witch Defender of Defoko

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    I attempted to go from CV to VCV when I was a bit younger, but found it was too big of a jump for me (I was a lazy little preteen that didn't wanna spend so much time recording a VCV and figuring out how the hell the oto works) so I took a break for a while and went back to CV and transitioned from there to CVVC then VCV then eventually CVVC English since that was still a thing. Months ago I even felt comfortable enough to record VCCV English. Take your time and find what makes you comfortable.
     
  15. kimchi-tan

    kimchi-tan Your local Mikotard Global Mod Defender of Defoko

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    Is it weird that I find otoing VCV easier than CV and CVVC?

    My friend's very first voicebank was VCV but that was because she was already experienced with UTAU and has helped oto many others' voicebanks in the past (mostly VCV) so she had no trouble creating it. But for a fresh UTAU user, CV is definitely the most suitable. Otoing doesn't take too long (it can take as fast as only 30 minutes for experienced otoers) and because of the time and skill to oto CV, it's easy to ask around for help.

    Although I proceeded with VCV after trying CV (because of moresampler), CVVC isn't a bad option to go through next either since it's faster to record and fine-tune the oto compared to VCV's many, many strings and thousands of sounds in the oto.
     
  16. Piia

    Piia Ritsu's Renegades Defender of Defoko

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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  17. 幸兔雪 (Yukito Yuki)

    幸兔雪 (Yukito Yuki) Defoko's Slaves Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    Ok, let's play that we have a CV, CVVC and VCV reclist which all contains exactly same sounds.

    a i u e o n
    ba bi bu be bo
    cha chi chu che cho
    da di du de do
    fa fi fu fe fo
    ga gi gu ge go
    ha hi - he ho
    ja ji ju je jo
    ka ki ku ke ko
    ma mi mu me mo
    na ni nu ne no
    pa pu pu pe po
    ra ri ru re ro
    sa si su se so
    sha shi shu she sho
    ta ti tu te to
    tsa tsi tsu tse tso
    wa wi - we wo
    ya - yu ye yo
    za zi zu ze zo

    bya - byu bye byo
    gya - gyu gye gyo
    hya - hyu hye hyo
    kya - kyu kye kyo
    mya - myu mye myo
    nya - nyu nye nyo
    pya - pyu pye pyo
    rya - ryu rye ryo

    "-" means that that sound is impossible in Japanese.

    All sounds in total: 134

    For JP CVVC, there's two "main" style which I will call in this time as "full" and "lite". Full's recordings style is basically like EVE and has following oto settings: "- CV" "- V" "CV" "V" "V V" and "V C". And in other hand, "lite" can be recoded longer mora than 2 and doesn't contain "- CV" and "- V" but otherwise has same than "full" one.

    With a RAW* calculation, each of type has following amount of oto strings:

    CV: 134 (if no "- V" or "* V" settings like in Defoko. If also "- V" and "* V" included in then it's 146)

    "Full" CVVC: 462

    "Lite" CVVC: 334

    VCV: 938

    *sorry if I made any little calculate error with CVVC but I know surely that size range is correct, tho! ^^;

    and recording time? Well, it depends of several factors: how long is each sample (in CV), how many mora and tempo (in CVVC and VCV). But I can say that one CV takes around 30min, CVVC (depending of style) 20min-40min and in VCV 1.5h but this is just how much time takes from ME who has done UTAU for 3 years!

    And configuring (oto) each style? CV in a day. CVVC (lite and full) takes me 1-3 day(s) and VCV takes for me 3-5 days in average(?)

    Surely, when VCV oto is generated (in moresampler, OREMO or SetParam) you can do VCV way more quickly (I personally prefer to do with hand even it takes time). But CVVC and CV oto are the best do ALWAYS with hand! None generator is good with those two!

    My answer is that CV is best for beginners even tho CV sounds as defaul choppier than CVVC or VCV. The simple reason is a count of oto AND recording time. I think that CVVC is the best next step because same or shorter recording time than in CV but has just 1/3~1/2 amount of VCV's configuring settings plus sounds less choppy than CV and IMO multipitch is the most ideal for CVVC style.

    Sure, VCV is "easiest" to oto than CV CVVC where you need to know&understand what you do but once you trulely understand what all settings stands for, it isn't actually that hard!

    And I'm sorry that my post became ridicilously long, hopefully you guys don't mind me :""DD
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  18. Piia

    Piia Ritsu's Renegades Defender of Defoko

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    Woooow... I really, really like what you did owo Thank you so much for explaining *in very very detail hahaha*

    BOI I DON'T WANNA START OUT WITH 938 :')
     
  19. UTAUlikeVOCALOID

    UTAUlikeVOCALOID Ritsu's Renegades Defender of Defoko

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    so for languages like tagalog, malay, indonesian, JP etc. VCV is a good thing to use or CVVC?
     
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  20. kimchi-tan

    kimchi-tan Your local Mikotard Global Mod Defender of Defoko

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    I do know that a VCV reclist for Tagalog exists but because Tagalog has a lot of ending consonants, it way larger than VCV Japanese.

    Unless you're willing to record and oto for long (much longer than VCV Japanese which is already tedious), CVVC is really the way to go.
     
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  21. UTAUlikeVOCALOID

    UTAUlikeVOCALOID Ritsu's Renegades Defender of Defoko

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    Ah well thanks! At least now I know where to go after my CV vb...and yeah I did see the reclist xD...(and no, Im not ready for that thing xD I bet if I made someone OTO that they'd make me pay a high amount and im broke TT^TT)
     
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