Your stand on UTAU-related commissions?

PandaLolii

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
[Ahh, I wasn't sure if I should have started this thread here or in the Commissions area hehe ;;]

So, I've seen a lot of people open for UTAU-related commissions. As well have I seen arguments against them and I'd like to see what a lot of people have to say about it (and I'm a little iffy if certain services would go against its shareware ((freeware)) laws?) Of course, there are certainly many services that are socially unacceptable such as (imo) paying someone to make your UTAU sing.

I'm just going to list a bunch of services I've seen :
-UST's (private and public)
-personal UST tuning
-Oto
-Originals
-Mixing
-Video Making / PV
-Designing / Art
-Voicing
-Translations (kinda)
-MMD models

So what are your opinions about such services both socially viewed and with laws / usage policies?

Just my opinion >>
I think most people are comfortable with art / video commissions since it's like any other art comm and people are normally paid to make videos all the time.
Originals seem to be the same since it's like writing another piece of music for someone, although I see little of that offered so I can't really say. I know some people will write everything out and stuff, but will not do the UTAU part which is fair, imo. =v=

USTs seem to be the most controversial topic I've seen. Lots of people like to say "well, you can get them for free" which is more than true. At the same time, I'd like to say (and let me say, I am not declaring that I am for or against it) you can get art requests sometimes. o 3 o; Also, it's a lot like just paying someone to remaking a piece of music for you. There is, of course, the argument that you don't own the song so you have no right to be profiting off of such materials (unless there is legitimate permission from the song writer.)

It's something I don't think I'd ever plan on getting myself into. = n =;;

The others..I don't have much to say but I'd like to hear from others!! =v=b
 

Hika421

Teto's Territory
For me it's like, if it takes effort, it's fine to commish that effort if you wanna.
Pretty much most, if not all of these things are commissioned for already in UTAU/Vocaloid and yeah, it seems pretty chill. ' v'/
 

Asteriski

Teto's Territory
I think all of that's fine except for the USTs, because then someone's profiting off of another composer's work. The exception to this would be for public domain works, I guess.
 

FastSpeedy

Teto's Territory
I will reply to this as an artist that makes drawings/videos/designs, but who also understands the originals/MMD models area a bit.

For me, in my opinion (which is mine, and doesn't mean people will agree with it), an artist have the right to charge someone for their art. Which I'd say, drawings, PVs, designs, composing originals and modeling MMD models are all included in the Art category.

I believe they have the right to charge for those, because they are intimately connected to the creative mind behind an artist (from any area of the Arts). Creating a design, composing an original, creating a PV from scratch (using their own pictures/effects/abilities AND being for an original song) and modeling a model (from scratch) all demand creativeness. Also, they are all done from scratch (I don't include here the cases in which people edit/copy parts of things to "create" something).

As for creating an UST file, normally they are for covers, so you can't actually make money out of that, because it's for a copyrighted song. If it is for a free song or an original, charging is fine.

As for OTOing, I personally think the person can charge if wanted, since it is kind of a heavy job (specially for VCVs).

My opinion, anyways.
 

Hika421

Teto's Territory
You see with USTs it's weird because, people sell karaoke files (handmade ones) or MIDIs of copyrighted songs. And it's all fine and chill... so with USTs...?
 

PandaLolii

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
Hika421 link said:
You see with USTs it's weird because, people sell karaoke files (handmade ones) or MIDIs of copyrighted songs. And it's all fine and chill... so with USTs...?

Ahh really? Do the creators know? :uhm:; It could just be that nobody ever brought it to their attentions so they couldn't have done anything about it. And I guess it could differ from musicians since some might be more lenient about these things. 
 

scarfu

Teto's Territory
Mmm see I don't like commissions where the product that's being sold doesn't 100% belong to the seller and the buyer.

Commissioning things like
  • USTs
  • Mixing
  • MMD (unless it's completely original/made from scratch)

feels really wrong to me because the things being sold aren't something that belong to the seller. You're selling other people's work with like basic modification and to me that just feels skeevy LMAO There's probably some copyright issues here too.

Otos, voicing, designs, etc-- I think those are fine because the product being sold belong 100% between the seller and the buyer.
 

theLooneyLibrarian

Teto's Territory
Well, in my opinion it's all fine as long as you're selling a service primarily.
I mean, making ust for songs that don't belong to you and then charging every user for using it is certainly wrong.
But. If someone steps up to you and says "make this ust for me, I'll pay your for your work" and you do the job and then hand the ust over so the other person can do with it whatever they want, even distribute it for free, the your only offering your service, which makes it a different matter, if you ask me.
But, to be safe, I'd always recommend trades instead of commisions.
 

Hentai

Technical Admin
Administrator
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
I would say in many cases it would depend on what was being commissioned. If you are requesting a MIDI, UST, or translation you are treading a really fine line, it is that dreaded derivative works line and you will really need to take a look at the original work's licencing terms.

If its licensed under a Piapro or Creative Commons I would consider it a 'non-commercial' use, so long as you make it clear that the commission is not for the derivative work itself, but for the time and effort you are putting into doing something for them.

Beyond that I would also make any derivatives you make public, though it wouldn't be unreasonable to have some sort of timed-exclusivity to let them produce a video or whatever. You are treading a fine line in almost all cases, and making it public is a show of goodwill to the rest of the community.

That all being said the line between what constitutes commercial and non-commercial usages is very vague, as far as I know there is no real legal definition of the term, though I have heard many opinions about it. In almost all cases you are in a grey area and I recommend discretion at all times.

Edit:
Upon further reflection, I feel really strongly about the making it public part, if only to avoid double-dipping and the possibility of getting paid to do the same UST twice, and really only doing it once. The 'exclusivity' seems to imply ownership, you don't want to imply ownership of something thats not yours. Likewise I am more inclined to overlook licencing infringments for the 'public good'.
 

Jpegurl

Teto's Territory
Hmmm. I think it's fine to be commissioned for all of those except mixing. Well, I guess that's fine, it just seems a little desperate, paying someone to use your UTAU.

On the UST subject, I have to agree with theLoonyLibrarian.
 

Kreic

Momo's Minion
I've been thinking about opening to ust comissions too. it's hard to make them and, I agree that it is ok to charge for making ust files. I mean... you wouldn't be redistributing utau software and it wouldn't be illegal in case of making the ust for a cover.. I see it more like a fan art commission.
 

Aline

Teto's Territory
The only case that could be open to UST commissions is if, IDK, one made an original and gave the vocal MIDI or something (like the raw UST or I dunno) to someone else tune and perfect for an UTAU of their choice. Then it'd be OK, I believe; after all, it'd be 100% between the author and the commissioned personhoncho.
 

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