Is it Possible to Properly Write an UTAU/Vocaloid Crossover?

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MioDioDaVinci

Teto's Territory
A few days ago, my sister (a soon to be UTAU user) and I decided to poke around in the fanfiction side of Vocaloid. We were mainly there to find the good, the bad, and the ugly and see if there weren't a few fics we could favorite. I was surprised; aside from the hundreds of shipping fics, the rest seemed to be of fairly good quality! They were certainly something I would read.

Although, I went a little deeper after that... And found the UTAU/Vocaloid crossover section.

As expected, there was the obligatory "Teto and Miku meet," "Haku falls in love with one of the Vocaloids," "Neru and Rin," ect... VIPPAloid fics were to be expected. And then there were a few fics with your Average Joe UTAU meeting up with one of the Vocaloids.

The comments/reviews section frightened me.

Apparently, according to the UTAU/Vocaloid fans, aside from the Vippers, UTAU and Vocaloid should never meet because it will always devolve into a Mary Sue, OOC fest where the writer lives out their fantasy of meeting their favorite Vocaloid.

Because all UTAUs are glorified self-inserts.

Right.

And believe me, after finding this, I didn't stop at one site. I scoured the internet in search of more tales of the famous characters meeting our own humble little mascots. And everywhere, the story was the same: either the fic was bad or the reactions were bad.

So now that I've ranted on and given this a bit of context, I'd like to know: do you guys think that it's possible to write a "good" UTAU/Vocaloid crossover? And if so, how? Any ideas in particular?

What do you think are some of the better plot points/interactions to include? And some bad ones? What turns you on/off a Vocaloid/UTAU fanfic? What ruins them? Anything you keep in mind when writing them?

Seeing as I started the topic, I'll start with my opinion. Spoilered for space. You can kind of ignore it seeing as I've been jumping in and out while writing this and have kind of lost my train of thought.

Keep in mind that I am in no way ordering everyone who wants to write an UTAU/Vocaloid crossover to follow what guidelines/unspoken rules I happen to somehow establish. This is just MioDio ranting. This is merely my opinions and what structure I will follow in the future if I ever end up writing.

[sub][sub][sub]Argh, why do I know that I'm going to come off wrong and offend someone? I'mincrediblysorryinadvanceifIdooffendsomeone.[/sub][/sub][/sub]

Now, I know from looking at all of these crossovers that an UTAU/Vocaloid fic can go downhill very easily and very quickly. It's a slippery slope because UTAUs are essentially original characters, something that's not very well accepted in fan fiction. No matter what, you're bound to do something that upsets someone, whether it's making two characters get too close, making the UTAU do something just a bit too heroic, or even going against someone's ship. But like I said, that's bound to happen and that's not much a problem. Haters gonna hate, am I right?

But keeping this in mind, it does mean however that you do have to be a bit careful when writing a fic. If the characters and interactions aren't believable, people tend to get bored and frustrated. For instance, nobody really wants to read a fic about Miku loosing her voice the day before the concert and calling on her very best friend, Kuroine Kokoro (I apologize if there's an UTAU out there named that) to cover the concert for her. Ms. Kuroine does so, becomes a star, and marries Len. The end. Boring.

Now I feel that there is a way to quote, "properly" write a fiction in order to get the best possible reaction. I've been contemplating this for a while now, wondering what it would be like if the two platforms met. As far, I've come up with a few scenarios that I think might be a bit more accepted than "UTAU A meets up with Vocaloid B and becomes best friends."

Among those scenarios, I've managed to pick out what (for me) tends to make or break these plots.

Various Points MioDio Keeps in Mind when Imagining UTAU/Vocaloid Crossovers:
  • Go a ways as to introducing the characters. It's a bit flat when either the Vocaloids already know the UTAU or they're introduced in one paragraph and are best friends ever since. I personally like to read the relationship (if any) grow over time. It's incredibly rare for two people to meet and be friends by the end of the day.
  • And on the topic of relationship, treat romantic relationships the same way. I know that many people wouldn't want to read about "Oliver saw the most bootiful UTAU ever so he fell in love and theymadebabieskthxbai." Take time to introduce feelings.
  • Keep it realistic. When it comes to vocal quality, not all UTAUs can achieve the Vocaloid standard. So when you're writing, know this. This may just be a pet peeve of mine, but if your UTAU has a metallic tinge (as most do. Darn you, resampler), it means that they won't necessarily be serenading the Vocaloids and sending tears down their cheeks. Not to say that you can't have the Vocaloid say, "Oh, you have a nice voice." This may just be a pet peeve of mine, so you can ignore this point for the most part. orz
  • Please, for the love of all things UTAU, don't write a Sue fic. No, nobody wants to read about how your UTAU saved the day and was forever loved by the Vocaloids. No, we don't want to know about how your UTAU rose to fame and killed Miku. No, we don't want to know what you'd like to do in bed with Kaito via your UTAU. Just... Think before you write.
  • Let me just say, if you make a bit of an AU or take a different interpretation on the software, MioDio will worship your fic. I love it when people stray from the path a little when writing fics. Perhaps instead of actual human singers, the Vocaloids are what they are in real life: computer programs. Maybe you've turned all of the Vocaloids/UTAUs into pocket size USB robots. If you take the universe in a different direction, it makes everything so much more interesting. ;u;
  • Consider your UTAUs personality with that of the Vocaloids. I know for a fact that a lot of people pretend that no matter what personality anyone has, UTAU and Vocaloid will be buddy buddy. I know that the Vocaloids don't have much personality to begin with, wich means that you can assign whatever you want to them. Perhaps Rin thinks your UTAU is really annoying because of how spastic they are. Maybe Meiko is suspicious of them. Perhaps Miku wants nothing more than to braid their hair. Forever. Just make these interacctions more interesting than "OH HAI. WANNA SING? OKAEI."
[*] If there's one thing that MioDio loves (not as much as different universes), it's Elsewhere Fics. An Elsewhere Fiction is where you're writing about a character in the same universe as the fandom, but not in the same location (hence the name). For instance, if you were to write an Elsewhere Fic set in the Daughter of Evil universe, you could write about a citizen in one of the countries and the effects of the princess' rule. What's great about these fics is that you can have an entire OC cast and nobody can shout and complain at you for interacting with the main characters.
[/list]
So yes, there sits MioDio's list of things that make her like/dislike a fiction. It's probably missing a lot of points and I doubt it has any sense of flow. I've been writing this over the course of a couple days, popping in when I've had the time.

And just a quick note: been using the Cryptonloids because they seem to be the most popular for this sort of thing.

I hope I didn't offend anyone and that this post has some sort of coherent sense of thought. ovo;;

[sub][sub][sub][sub]And I may or may not be starting this thread because I've contemplated writing one of these fics. Pleasedon'tkillme[/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub]
 

PKLpikachu

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
Hmm.... Well, I guess a Vocaloid/UTAU crossover can be pulled off if you play your cards right.
Here are some ideas for Vocaloid/UTAU crossovers:
* UTAUloid loves Master. Master buys Vocaloid. Master spends more time with Vocaloid than with UTAUloid. UTAUloid gets jealous. Wacky love-triangle hijinks ensue.
* Post-apocalyptic world. UTAUloids are barely surviving in the wastelands. The Vocaloids rebuild quickly and create their own secluded society. A group of UTAUloids find the Vocaloids' society and plan to break in and take over.

As for interactions b/w UTAU and Vocaloid
The Good:
* Make a relationship (romantic or otherwise) be almost impossible. Make the UTAUloid work for the attention of their Vocaloid idol.
* A bit of fangirling/fanboying from the UTAUloid can be good in moderation.
The Bad:
* Vocaloids and UTAUloids bashing on each other for no reason. This not only is bad writing, but it may say something about the author.

I don't read many fanfics in general, but any Vocaloid/UTAU fic with the "OMG WE SHOULD TOTALLY SING TOGETHER AND STUFFZ!!!!1!!111!!" plot will make me die on the inside.

Things to keep in mind while writing a crossover fic:
* Vocaloids have no official personalities or relationships. You can make Miku a crazy pervert coming up with zany schemes to get into Kaito's pants. Rin and Len can hit the clubs, get their asses drunk, and have lots and lots of sex every night. It's pretty much up to author what they want to do with the Vocaloids because nothing is official.
** To follow up, most UTAUloids have official personalities and/or relationships, so do your research.
 

Ant

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
^ some good stuff there. Honestly, slice of life type fanfics with both Utau and Vocaloid will be harder to write without getting those comments (IMO). If there's some kind of plot that progresses the story, and therefore gives some kind of justification to the crossover then people would give it some slack. At least that's what I think. :0
 

MioDioDaVinci

Teto's Territory
Thread starter
PKLpikachu link said:
* UTAUloid loves Master. Master buys Vocaloid. Master spends more time with Vocaloid than with UTAUloid. UTAUloid gets jealous. Wacky love-triangle hijinks ensue.

I got to admit; I bloody well adore that idea and I would definitely read a fic that uses that. Almost reminds me of how I started to feel horrible because I was listening to more Vocaloid than UTAU. ;A;

PKLpikachu link said:
* Make a relationship (romantic or otherwise) be almost impossible. Make the UTAUloid work for the attention of their Vocaloid idol.
* A bit of fangirling/fanboying from the UTAUloid can be good in moderation.

I agree whole-heartedly with these two. Especially the top. Not many people seem to acknowledge that unless the pair is forced to be together, the relationship isn't just going to pop up overnight. And suddenly, I imagine taking this to the extreme and having an UTAU who is virtually unnoticed by everyone. And then hijinks ensue and they try to gain Master's attention. :sing:;;

Ant link said:
Honestly, slice of life type fanfics with both Utau and Vocaloid will be harder to write without getting those comments (IMO).

Yes, yes, especially if there's no real explanation offered. Perhaps Slice of Life fics would work better as a secondary fiction after writing the introduction between the two.

...

Oh darn, I just had an UTAU plot bunny. Taking the phrase "Become and UTAU" literally... Hmm.
 

Aline

Teto's Territory
Yes, it's perfectly possible, ondce you set the characters as tools and forget your personal feelings for them.

Though, an aura of superiority or higher hierarchy must almost always emanate from Vocaloids and, in a lesser extent, from VIPPERloids. I know that entering the whole "fantastical caste system" debate shouldn't be something we could do, but it's inevitable, considering the circumstances. You can't make "Kakoine Nekomi" (a name example) become the most famous UTAU ever if she's barely known, as it'd be transforming her in a Mary-Sue.

Though, in certain situations, certain key characters can become important to the point of even outshining Vocaloids. For example, if you have a military UTAU like Senba Gunji in a war fanfiction, his canon experience in battle and strategic thinking would give him higher focus in the story. In fact, very few Vocaloids as of themselves would appear to be fit for a war, since only two or so incorporate weapons in their canon design; based in their visible characteristics, shifting the focus from Miku to Gakupo in a war would usually make more sense (unless, of course, one wants to elaborate her specifically as a war robot).

tl;dr context and deattachment are key factors in the whole situation. There's no way you can make a good fanfiction at all if you don't take these two things in consideration, let alone a crossover one.
 

Ciel Phantomhive

Teto's Territory
I don't have any problem with any UTAU/Vocaloid fics as long as they're actually well written. Because the personalities are entirely up to the creators, there's no way for a Vocaloid fic to be "OOC".
I see a lot of people hating on the Ichine Luna/Len pairing because "Len will never love your OC" but the fact of the matter is, Len will never canonically love anyone because he is a computer program. So if, to use Luna as an example, Krystal decides to write a fanfic where Len and Luna fall in love, and it's well written, and the UTAUloid who's being written about isn't a Mary-Sue by nature (there are some UTAUloids who are, but most aren't.) then I don't see the problem. (I hope using a specific example here wasn't a problem, Luna's just the first one I think of when I think "UTAU/Vocaloid ships")
Even when it comes to plot and scenarios and such, as long as you're a good writer, it will make itself work.
 

UtauYork

Teto's Territory
I would love to put my word in on this. The spoiler'd part is just... my opinion on writing stories with 'OC's in general, seeing as UTAUs could be put in that category. :B

Writing a good UTAU/Vocaloid crossover is not impossible. It's just that a lot of people have become picky and kind of ignorant when it comes to characters that you made yourself. I could see why, because most do get Mary-Sue-ish, especially in other fandoms. Not only that, but they usually come in a large size package of bad grammar, generalized ideas, OOCness, or first-time authors that just want to innocently want to write their way into the world of their favorite characters. Sometimes it's all of the above.

But if you don't do any of that (except for the last one; sometimes new, aspiring writers do better than the ones who already have about five fics in their experience in writing.), then I have no problem. At all. Sometimes I'm willing to let some things slide, because no one is perfect, but when it's a consistent problem, you either need to go over your writing more when you fix it (something that I'm honestly not very good at) or just try to start from scratch and work your way up again.

One thing I absolutely loathe, though, is romance. Only because it's everywhere and done the same way just about every time. When the story is about horror and tragedy, then don't put romance in it. "There's a murderer coming after you, don't you think that hooking up with (insert character name here) shouldn't be on your top list of priorities right now?" So that's another thing; follow the genre. 'It's fine to have romance here and there, but that's not what you said it'd be about.'

Anyways. yes. I'm probably getting hypocritical, but having an original and interesting plot to a story is probably the thing that you should focus on the most. After that, you should probably just go over how the UTAUs would interact with every Vocaloid and how they would react in turn to how you see their personalities. Because if someone bashes on you for getting a Vocaloid's personality wrong, then they're just being rude.

I would probably have more to say about what to do and not to do, but I'm drawing a blank. I dd try to write an UTAU/VOCALOID fic on FF, once, although that centered more around UTAU than anything else. I wonder if you saw that failure? :U
 

Obakebaka

Momo's Minion
Anything in which utauloids interact with utauloids and vocaloids interact with vocaloids not supported by the creators is fanfic. Whether it's a written story, animation, games or comics.
Hell, I'm writing a game/visual novel with utauloids in it. No vocaloid interactions, though. They're the in-universe legendary creator gods that may or may not exist. But there will be vippers. In fact, the vippers have major roles so far. But it's fanfic no matter which way you coat it and whether or not it will turn out right I have yet to see.

I've also already said on here that my utauloid/voxeleid Sabi Akumuka has already met Rin, Len and Tei. He isn't "OMG BEST FRIENDS FOREVER LAWL!" with any of them. He only sees Rin in a professional light, despises Len for an incident that happened involving the three of them in the past and due to her homicidal desires to protect Len no matter what he is terrified of Tei and carries a bowie knife for protection from her and other wannabe yandere LenxUtau/Fanloid pairings (And there are many) that crawl out of the woodwork.

Everybody should be free to combine as many different ones as they want as long as they properly credit the companies/individuals involved in the creation of the voices. Good or bad.
Although, admittedly, having characters interact in ways that aren't canon/realistic drives me INSANE! It already happens a lot with Fullmetal Alchemist and Mass Effect fanfic and it's already hard enough dealing with the SERIOUS AlxEd pairings and GarrusxMaleShep pairings without it involving my OWN worlds and characters. If things are all just done in good fun then I'm not so fussed, but damn... Sometimes people can just overstep a line!
 

Angel

Momo's Minion
Yes it is possible, if you take the characters, settings and plot into consideration. Romance fiction can work well, when you think of how a real relationship develops and we all know it doesn't just happen overnight.
 

theLooneyLibrarian

Teto's Territory
It is possible, if you keep in mind that most UTAUloids are characters in the sense that they already have personalities. If this or that UTAUloid's personality fits your story well, then, why not.
If there's an UTAUloid that can talk to ghosts and Miku needs their help to ask Len who murdered him this time then, go ahead. Write that crossover.
But stay away from romance, keep the UTAUloids in character, basically what everybody else here said. And refrain from writing stories that start like
"Hi everybody, I'm <insert random UTAUloid here> and I'm 15 years old. I like reaally love singing and I want to be juuust as famous as my great idol Kagamine Rin!"
Serously. First person narration as almost always as sign of baaaaad fanfiction.
 

SakisCookie

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
In my opinion, it shouldn't matter that it's an UTAU/Vocaloid crossover. Heck, it shouldn't matter if it's a story about Miku falling in love with a potato.

A good writer can make anything work. And that's what this all comes down to. As a writer, I absolutely hate it when an author's work is judged by its content and not its quality. If it's about the UTAU becoming a Mary-Sue, that can also be adverted when the writer actually knows what they're doing and isn't an excited fan-girl/boy.

On that note, I'll say what I've always said about fan-fiction: it's FAN. FICTION. No one is saying it's canon. And honestly, when I write fan-fiction, I do it for ME. I do it because, dammit, I want to ship my character with someone, and I can have a fantasy world where that happens. If it is keeping within the character's personality that they could work well with little Suzy, why not explore the possibility? Again, key words: fan FICTION.

Now, yes, if pairing Suzy and Johnny means I have to do a 180 on Johnny's personality, that's just ridiculous and I should keep it hidden on my laptop and it shouldn't be posted publicly (unless labelled as a crackfic).



TL;DR:
-Regardless of what kind of crossover it is, if it's written well, it shouldn't get any hate.
-Fan fictions are MEANT to be fantasies, and are acceptable as long as the characters stay within normal personality limits.
 

Tortoiseshel

Momo's Minion
Of course. It just depends on how good a writer you are. That's really all there is to it. And it's not like anyone can legitimately complain about Vocaloids (or some UTAUs) being out of character or the writer twisting canon because there is no canon.
 

NecroDemonic

Momo's Minion
I think it is possible, as long as the story is original and well-written. Keep in mind that all UTAUs, aside from pitchbends, are, in a way, official (seriously, I'm tired of people saying that Defoko, Momo, and the Vippers are the only official UTAUloids). But anyway, it is possible to make a good VOCALOID/UTAU crossover fic as long as it is original and not a Mary-Sue fic. And I'm okay with VOCALOID x UTAU pairings as long as the UTAU is not a Mary-Sue and their love was not at first sight.
 

shinami

Procrastination Queen
Tutor
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
why did you revive this ahhhh

I read the first post, thinking it was something new, really intensely wanting to offer my perspective, and I find out it's a year old post being zombie-fied.

Sure, it's good to have your opinions, but if a post hasn't been updated in a year, don't post. It's dead. The discussion is pretty much over. Only exceptions are maybe threads where the purpose is to share voicebanks your like or some other non-selfish or questionary thing.

I've noticed you've done this to a couple of insanely old threads - please refrain from doing so.
 

Misha

Momo's Minion
What's wrong with reviving threads if new people have fresh perspectives on them? Are you saying that people should just make an entirely new thread? It's an already slow board, so whats the actual problem?

Sorry, this is off topic, but I'm curious as to why.
 

shinami

Procrastination Queen
Tutor
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Eh, it's less to do with this specific thread, but I recall that a while ago someone revived an over a year old thread, with no new take on it - everyone who posted on the revived thread was just regurgitating things people had already said on it long ago. It happens every now and then, much too often I think when in most of these situations it's nothing new being said. Plus, after it's this old, the original poster has long since come to their own conclusion.

I can see people reviving this if they have a very similar concern and want their own advice, but giving advice (similar to advice already given) to a person who has long since moved on? I approve reviving this if you have something very relevant that is brand new to say or want your own advice, but not for just commenting on it.

Now, this isn't 100% about this particular thread. This is just my thoughts in general about every thread. And if most people disagree with me, alright, sorry if I seem like I'm forcing an unpopular opinion.

i feel like i sound too serious and angry ahhh i'm not
hope i conveyed my thoughts correctly
 

Cdra

possibly dead
Global Mod
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Because nercro'ing threads is in bad taste. Shinami's reasons are spot-on; it's not useful to anyone to continue commenting on year-old questions. The original posters in this thread may not even attend the forum anymore, heck. Make a new topic if you have a new question--if it hasn't been talked about in this long, it warrants a new thread. Posting in an old thread just invites people to comment on year-old posts. :/

How do people even find these ancient threads to post in them? And not realize that they're ancient when they do???

Thread closed for reasons stated.
 
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