Are you worried for the UTAU community?

[etherealfrost]

Things seem to have reeeaaalllyyy quieted down in the last few years. Members that haven't been active in a year are still at the top of "notable member" list. I'm seeing a lot less from the people who had high-quality banks and/or were very popular. At least two UTAU users have now gotten Vocaloids (Macne Nana and Ruby, voiced by Misha), and who knows, there could be more. It's seeming easier (feels weird to say that considering it still is extremely difficult) to "become" a Vocaloid, but with the flood of releases following V3 and V4 it's starting to seem to me like people will just start getting Vocaloids left and right. A popular UTAU user even got to design a Vocaloid (which certainly isn't the same as voicing one, but still.)

That being said, that's just it; popular UTAU users are getting these chances. So you'd hope that that would mean UTAU actually gets a big surge of people trying even harder now that there's been fruits of these efforts!

Anyway, was just thinking about this because the people I used to talk to and do UTAU collabs with have stopped using it altogether (and as such our own friendships have tapered away...) so I worry that I won't find any solace in it anymore if I'm just doing it by myself, you know?

Kind of a rant. Sorry about that.

 

[chunter]

Opportunity is what you make of it. Yes, the space left when someone advanced can be filled in by someone who may have been growing in the wings. I've seen examples of this, and in my working life, I've been that person, too.

I have a concern about whether or not UTAU and Vocaloid are aging gracefully or not, though so far I think everything is alright. If you want to watch things decay slowly, don't do anything. If you love making music with this kind of software, you'll continue to do it for years to come, even if it seems like nobody else does.

 

[Agatechlo]

I see 2 things that set UTAU apart from Vocaloid that should guarantee the former's continued popularity for some time to come:

1. UTAU is free; Vocaloid is not.
Right now I think the cheapest way you can get into Vocaloid is to buy one of the V2 Engloids priced at $69. Which is actually a pretty good deal, but it's still not free. When I was first introduced to Vocaloid I considered buying one for a while, but then discovered UTAU & thought why take a chance on Vocaloid when I can try UTAU for free first. Well I did eventually buy LEON & MIRIAM, but by then I was a true UTAU fan as well!

2. With UTAU you can record your own voice bank; can't do that with Vocaloid.
OK, in theory if you have deep pockets (over $10,000) & can find an established Vocaloid production company to work with, you probably could get your own private Vocaloid voice bank (not resellable).

As far as UTAU producers moving to Vocaloid, this might be due to the sudden increase in Engloids that we're about to get (Dex, Daina, Ruby & maybe Rose). But I suspect this interest shift away from UTAU is only temporary. As new resamplers and recording methods like VCCV are introduced, I think there will be a corresponding shift back to UTAU.

 

[Meta]

I feel you. It seems a lot of people are leaving the community. I mean, just look at the boards for example, they're pretty much dead. It's hard to find a lot of activity from the community anywhere imo

 

[bio]

tbh I am, im worried that we will become like vocaloidotaku, very toxic(we are already halfway there)

 

[etherealfrost]

[]

There is certainly still plenty of great Vocaloid content coming out. Even without being very involved at all over the past few years, I've still been adding new songs that I've fallen in love with to my collection every month or so. I've been really busy now that I've suddenly become an adult, but I've got a new mic and some more Japanese under my belt and really hope to be able to do cover both as an utaite and UTAU in the near future again.

[]

I really hope you're right. Some of this may simply be nostalgia, but I really miss the activity. I tried to come back a few months ago and I lost interest simply because the community is so slow now... That's not to say I haven't still been working on things, it's just proven hard to get...involved. When/If interest shifts back, I'll be thrilled.
[DOUBLEPOST=1438052601][/DOUBLEPOST]

tbh I am, im worried that we will become like vocaloidotaku, very toxic(we are already halfway there)

I disagree. I haven't really seen anything toxic coming from these boards (we're barely even active enough for that to happen in the first place).

 

[bio]

I disagree. I haven't really seen anything toxic coming from these boards (we're barely even active enough for that to happen in the first place).

Lol i wasnt saying Utaforum is toxic. I was saying the community in general is super slowly becoming toxic(sorry if this came off mean)

 

[shinami]

Well from the perspective of someone who disappeared and came back, there is a very big reason for this - when UTAU began, people got into it and those first people had to explain it to people. This brough them acclaim and notice as they made the first steps then helped everyone else understand. Most of that generation has already left long ago - there's still Myst, SRS, and Camilla Melodia's voicer, but I can't recall any more reeeeeally oldies. But even through the beginning there was still more to learn - I recall a good few people around my jointime who helped pave the community further and we helped shape the forum a bit. This forum has carried over from each forum but the very first one which I was never even a part of, so those contributions are all still here.

Now why do people leave? I'm pretty dang sure that nearly everyone into UTAU get into it as a teenager. Yes, you have school, but you also have soooo much free time. And then you get to college, you become an adult, and your time dwindles. Everyone I knew instantly started to flag behind with UTAU as soon as that milestone hit, and many do leave or take a backseat because college and work take a lot of time and effort and spending money on Vocaloids and microphones that you need for bills is a hard choice.

There is also the rise of social medias to consider, I think another part is that we're thinning out. Facebook and Twitter weren't as big in the early days in my opinion. And voicebank saturation. And the learning curve has dramatically increased (I wonder if I would have been scared away if I made my first awful CV bank then saw the glory of Kire.)

Anyways, expllanations aside UTAU is still growing. Do you think Cz will be forgotten because she didn't make English at the beginning of UTAU? No, she's big in the community for innovating! Do you think Echoblossom made USTs in the beginning? Nope, I remember her popping up sometime in like 2012-2013 I think. Misha once had a bad CV bank, Cillia once did, everyone once did. You just gotta learn, have fun, make friends, and if you want to be "big" then you gotta experiment and innovate. Or do it for fun, that's why I make USTs because people don't appreciate some songs enough and I don't want to just plug and play. XD

Ramble aside, we're growing up, but don't lose hope.

 

[Terindie]

The UTAU world feels markably tinier since I first started working with it.

I feel as though it comes from a raised set of standards for voicebanks; CV Japanese isn't good enough anymore. I think people become intimidated by having to jump in and record their 8pitch VCCV English/Japanese/Klingon bank upon release or face obscurity and a fanbase that is past its experimental days.

 

[etherealfrost]

I don't think CV is totally unacceptable anymore! I still have some CV songs in my music library that I think sound wonderful.

I can definitely see the higher standards as a whole scaring people away though. To be fair, however, a lot of people in the past didn't want to hear anything negative about their UTAU - and thus never improved.

 

[Terindie]

I don't think CV is totally unacceptable anymore! I still have some CV songs in my music library that I think sound wonderful.

I can definitely see the higher standards as a whole scaring people away though. To be fair, however, a lot of people in the past didn't want to hear anything negative about their UTAU - and thus never improved.

On point with that last part there. If only they had stuck around and used that critique for good
I heard a statistic somewhere that there were like.. 4000 utau in 2013 or something? That is a tiny, tiny fanbase. We can't afford to lose many people!

 

[Agatechlo]

I heard a statistic somewhere that there were like.. 4000 utau in 2013 or something? That is a tiny, tiny fanbase. We can't afford to lose many people!

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm an UTAU fan even though I don't have my own UTAUloid.

 

[na4a4a]

My apologies for the randomness here, I really want to get my thoughts down before I lose them.

When UTAU was younger people were more recognized for being helpful and also their skill in an (at the time) skill-less community.

As time went on it's become less about skill and who can bitch, whine, and complain to the top. At least from my perspective, and it's such a sad thing to see. Also art plays as big (or bigger) of a role now as ever
I'm not saying people can't complain or post the occasional rant, but don't do it with malice intentions(for popularity)


I think that, while there is a saturation of voicebanks, there is a lack of recent knowledge being spread. It feels standards have increased to (counterintuitively) make up for the lack of understanding in simpler methods and ideas.
So many people skip right over learning solid CV fundimentals and go straight to VCV/CV and it really hinders them because they lack the understanding needed to get it done how they want.
Because they can't do it many will go for commissions. But the supply doesn't meet the demand- sure there are lots of people who do do commissions....but a lack of those who do them well/seriously. It's sad to see someone spend the money on a bad oto because the guy/gal gave them a sob story.

Vocalsynth isn't aging as it should. As a tool it would be fine but because people are making it "more" than that it really takes a toll on everything. Because of this UTAU is also pulled into a "fad cycle"...and aggressive cycle of trends that is never ending. Along with it being in it's own cycle, many other thrends cross amd intersect it's cycle and even changes it's course. When UTAU begins to trip another trend comes along to pull it back up; It's what keeps the community alive but also tears it apart.
It ages fast, it's mature/maturing now. But just as it's just beginning to I fear is when it's most susceptible. It's fate truly in the community's, producers', and developers' hands.

Further- I feel some ideas that people have hold things back...
UTAU isn't free, so many people think it is and even share their registration keys....UTAU is made by humans with lives, bills, and responsibilities. Not donating is fine, but consider that time is taken over many years- The least you can do is buy the full version to help fuel UTAU's future.

Also, as for the (knowledgeable) oldies leaving-
I just wish that at least one of them passes what they know onto someone. The community needs a mix of the old and the new and without the old knowledge we'll be caught rediscovering things known from years past.

Sorry, I got a little out of hand....

 

[chunter]

If you are worried that there isn't enough activity, let activity start with you. Even if the community doesn't follow, you'll have a nice catalog of personal accomplishment that, if archived properly, some kid in 2025 will stumble across and start some retro-revival thing with your work.

Now why do people leave? I'm pretty dang sure that nearly everyone into UTAU get into it as a teenager. Yes, you have school, but you also have soooo much free time. And then you get to college, you become an adult, and your time dwindles. Everyone I knew instantly started to flag behind with UTAU as soon as that milestone hit, and many do leave or take a backseat because college and work take a lot of time and effort and spending money on Vocaloids and microphones that you need for bills is a hard choice.

In all the internet communities I've been involved with that are centered around teens to 20s age groups, this is generally true, and it is the natural order of life: you should worry if this doesn't happen. If you do not become one of the people who move on, you get accustomed to the people who come and go.

It should be a concern if you don't learn about new people trying the software.

There is a knack to balancing a hobby with life, and to be honest, most people don't have it. To have some things, you must give up something else.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm an UTAU fan even though I don't have my own UTAUloid.

I have very little desire to edit voicebanks. The only time I messed with OTO files was when I was using a computer that didn't have Japanese support in it (yet.)

So many people skip right over learning solid CV fundimentals and go straight to VCV/CV and it really hinders them because they lack the understanding needed to get it done how they want.

I've noticed something in the EDM communities, that newcomers want a tutorial, preset, or download that gets straight to a sound, and when they realize that music is not something you master as quickly as a video game, they get discouraged. All music software can be deceptive in this way, UTAU is no exception.

This is a musical instrument, and if it is your first it will take some years to get the hang of it.

 

[Catlione]

I just like to work with UTAU, make covers and record voicebanks, I enjoy these processes. During these past 5-6 years I gained lots of skills which even helped me to get a job - working with sound, video editing, I even managed to raise my English knowledge just because I communicate with so many foreigners, awesome. (thanks to economic crisis there is no more job orz).

Back to the community: I met different people, some of them joined UTAU just because they wanted to create a character who can actually sing, not just a plain image. But they droped it quickly because it takes some work and knowledge to make all this sound fine or even good.

Other people whined a lot because nobody used their voicebanks. Last time I met such person was like... a month ago. I said that he is the only one who actually will ever use his voicebank, so he should stop whinig, start right away and enjoy the process. Maybe one day other users will find out about him. Answer was: "If I want, I can sing for myself, I made voicebank for other people", ironically, "other people" don't need your voicebank, there are more than 4000 voicebanks out there already. So this people droped too.

Another people would whine about popularity, "why kyaami is so popular and I'm not, we both make covers, but she managed to get recognition from japanese, microphone and bla bla bla." Getting this "popularity" and "recognition" takes even more time than learning how to make proper oto.ini or good usts. I saw how talented and skilled people droped UTAU after 3-4 months just because they didn't get their portion of fame right away.

This is like a natural selection, only those people who enjoy the process itself will stay for a very long time. I started to work with UTAU when I was almost 16, now I'm almost 22 and I'm not planning to drop this wonderfull hobby.

The only really bad thing I see is that Ameya doesn't update UTAU at all, almost 2 years passed after last update... or more?

 

[partial]

What bothers me is it seems like very few people will do things for free.

I thought UTAU was supposed to be about creativity and fun, but instead people won't help unless they'll be commissioned or something. I have no idea how anyone manages to make friends in this fandom.

 

[Terindie]

What bothers me is it seems like very few people will do things for free.

I thought UTAU was supposed to be about creativity and fun, but instead people won't help unless they'll be commissioned or something. I have no idea how anyone manages to make friends in this fandom.

Aw, now I dunno if that's fair to say. I remember seeing a lot of UTAU users with useful skills being taken advantage of by people who wanted free stuff. I think that commissions, art trades, collaborations, etc are good because artists are often taught that their work SHOULD be free because it's not actual labor, or not worth money, or whatever. It's totally cool to give stuff away out of the good in your heart, but UTAU is super time-consuming and it's understandable people would want to exchange their skills for cash.

 

[chunter]

[...]

Any art with a goal of popularity has a strong chance of ending badly if there is no other goal.

I admit that I don't want to make a voicebank of myself because I'd rather sing myself, I don't think anyone would want such a thing and the overhead of creating a characterization and such is not interesting enough to me, though it is a staple of the community. Perhaps I should acknowledge it more.

Regarding forum help, whenever I've had a question about by guitars, I can search and find my answer in a post on mylespaul from 2005 and do what I need without signing up for the forum. UTAU is mature enough that this can happen too.

...

There is a difference between "Help me and show me how this might be better," and "Do this because I'm not good at it." Nobody owes anyone anything, gratitude goes a long way, etc.

 

[Aali]

There are so many reasons why people come and go.

Some people (not everyone) are just straight up rude and people don't like being around rude people. I avoid the chatbox.

New people (like myself) are intimidated by the people who have tons of followers on SoundCloud and get nice comments and every song and even have commercial utau voicebanks. They don't want to compete.

Some people want to make friends and have others use their bank. When that doesn't happen, they leave. (This makes me feel weird cause I'm not trying to make friends here (sorry if that makes me sound mean) and my utau vb is private.)

What I'm trying to say is that like every fanbase of something, they are a few rude individuals.

What bothers me is it seems like very few people will do things for free.

I thought UTAU was supposed to be about creativity and fun, but instead people won't help unless they'll be commissioned or something. I have no idea how anyone manages to make friends in this fandom.

I can see what you mean by the free thing. Utau is supposed to be free but people like money! It's a way of life :/ People like me who don't have paypal or some sort of online payment thing can't pay commissions, so we're stuck hoping to meet an extremely nice individual who would help us for free and maybe even give us some pointers and advice as well.

 

[partial]

Aw, now I dunno if that's fair to say. I remember seeing a lot of UTAU users with useful skills being taken advantage of by people who wanted free stuff. I think that commissions, art trades, collaborations, etc are good because artists are often taught that their work SHOULD be free because it's not actual labor, or not worth money, or whatever. It's totally cool to give stuff away out of the good in your heart, but UTAU is super time-consuming and it's understandable people would want to exchange their skills for cash.

That's the thing, though - I'd be totally willing to do an art trade/collab/ect. That'd be fine.
And I do see your point in the problem of people taking advantage of others... I feel like people who won't learn to OTO (for example) just because they don't feel like it shouldn't get help, but I feel like there are some new UTAU users out there that could use a genuine, knowledgeable person to help them out every now and then. ^o^