Do you refer Ritsu Namine as "he" or "she"?

What do you use to refer to Ritsu Namine?


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    81

songzombie

Momo's Minion
I say "he", but I don't mind it when people call him either. But I do mind when people start flame wars or make really complicated headcanons over it.
Like I hate to break it to you but that headcanon about his disphoria you thought long and hard about? He's a troll character. He's 6, with missile boobs. (Plus I find people making headcanons over things to do with real people's struggles kind of in bad taste :p)

I think whoever decided his gender didn't spend too much time thinking about it, and neither do I.

Quite recently (though long enough ago for me to not remember properly), I stumbled on a video about the term "okama", and read a little into it. I agree with Adlez that it is an offensive term, maybe not "tranny" though because it lumps gay men with transgender people under a vague umbrella term I find hard to explain. Maybe it's the same line of thinking that make people assume all gays are effeminate, and if you cross dress as a woman, that must be really gay. For me, personally, I think that just reinforces Ritsu as "massive troll" when such a term is in his profile.
 
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Info-Chan

SELENA Developer
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Defender of Defoko
I always called him a "he" and people said cross-dressers usually want to be called what gender they are dressing as and I was like -_- this....is.....a.....fake.....person. I also get mad when people say this "RITSU IS A SHE AND I AM IGNORING YOU KNOW!" then you just know you ticked someone off
 

DragonflySpectrum

Ruko's Ruffians
It says he's male on his official wikia by the creator, guys. :x
That's his official gender... But I don't think it really matters either way, I guess.
 

songzombie

Momo's Minion
We know, but there's a lot of misinformed people or people who otherwise call him by female pronouns for whatever reason.
 

MystSaphyr

Procrastinator Extraordinaire
Administrator
Defender of Defoko
It says he's male on his official wikia by the creator, guys. :x
That's his official gender... But I don't think it really matters either way, I guess.

If you mean the UTAU Wikia, that Wiki is not official or by Ritsu's creator in any way and has pretty much been abandoned and not updated in ages.
 
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samth1815

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
Yeah I think people are just starting to use their own sites for hosting info nowadays. Ritsu's is here by the way- link
 

MystSaphyr

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And you're assuming that I'll actually bother to scroll through multiple pages on a forum about a fictional character's gender...?

Okama is considered along the lines of a slur due to its vague interpretation, and "she-male" is MOST DEFINITELY a slur and I'd appreciate it if you didn't use it again.
Fictional or not, it's a matter of respect for transgender and nonbinary individuals in the fandom.
 
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DragonflySpectrum

Ruko's Ruffians
Okama is considered along the lines of a slur due to its vague interpretation, and "she-male" is MOST DEFINITELY a slur and I'd appreciate it if you didn't use it again.
Fictional or not, it's a matter of respect for transgender and nonbinary individuals in the fandom.

I was translating a word. I was in no way disrespecting anyone.
 

MystSaphyr

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I was translating a word. I was in no way disrespecting anyone.

And that translation is why alternatives that word are being discussed in the first place.
Canon's final word was that it's up to interpretation, and personally I feel that interpretation should include actual pronouns and not slurs.
 
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Info-Chan

SELENA Developer
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umm the UTAU wiki is locked and it updates every time it needs too the creator and admins update Ritsu's page if they didn't then the page would be deleted
 

MystSaphyr

Procrastinator Extraordinaire
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Defender of Defoko
umm the UTAU wiki is locked and it updates every time it needs too the creator and admins update Ritsu's page if they didn't then the page would be deleted

Unfortunately the only active mod on the wikia for a long while was Yue and he's working on Wikidot now, and Oherman is also working on the Wikidot with us.

Chii's basically left the fandom. There aren't any more mods working on the Wikia.
 

Info-Chan

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Unfortunately the only active mod on the wikia for a long while was Yue and he's working on Wikidot now, and Oherman is also working on the Wikidot with us.

Chii's basically left the fandom. There aren't any more mods working on the Wikia.
oh well
 

Temporal Lizardo

Teto's Territory
I'm non-binary, so I feel sort of obligated to throw in my two cents. Obviously, I don't speak for all non-binary people, but here goes.

Is it established for all other human shaped UTAUs that they're human? Have you literally ever called another human-shaped UTAU "it"?

Still not seeing appropriate justification for using "it" in Ritsu's case when it's an especially sensitive topic.

That fact alone should be enough to avoid using "it" to respect the actual trans, genderfluid, neutrois, etc. individuals in the fandom. Else you might find yourself having to try to explain one day "nonono I didn't mean it like that I mean I think Ritsu's a genderless android" in a really awkward situation.

Myst hits the nail on the head with this one. No one calls other UTAU "it", there is no reason to be calling Ritsu "it" unless you are purposely trying to put him on some sort of lower level than non-Ritsu UTAU. "It" implies less respect than he/she/they; it's emphasizes you're referring to an object. Why does that matter with fictional characters? Because if you would place a fictional character as having a lower status from someone else just because they don't fit within a norm of gender, you would likely do the same with a real human being.
This doesn't just go for pronouns. Tranny, trap, and shemale aren't words that should be used to describe somebody.
Besides, it makes people on the trans spectrum feel very uncomfortable. If you're going to be calling a fictional character it/tranny/shemale because said character crossdresses, what's to lead me to believe you won't do the same with me? Doing so creates an unsafe environment.

Now, I'm NOT advocating we go all super mega epic Tumblr radical-SJW and start some sort of police task force and beat up every kid in the YouTube comments who calls Ritsu "it". Hell, I've probably done it at some time back when I didn't know better; a lot of people don't know that the term is offensive. Just try to keep in mind that you never know who is reading what you write on a forum/twitter/tumblr/whatever. Choosing to use a term that can be very easily avoided, when you KNOW how offensive that term is to real people, is frankly an unnecessary dick move.

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh. Most people don't try to be offensive, obviously; there's just a lot of misunderstanding.
 

songzombie

Momo's Minion
Though I already voiced my opinion on this thread, I'd just like to say that: sometimes I get somewhat sad and disappointed that Ritsu's gender causes controversy, even today. And I don't intend to hate/bash at all when I say that threads like this about Ritsu's gender always feel like breeding grounds for negatives arguments over a fictional character, at least to me, especially where it's "canon" (lol) that his gender is left to interpretation.

I tried not feeling personally invested on this but Ritsu is my favourite and his gender also seems to bring about lots of debate related to LGBTA+
(Not aiming this post at anyone in particular, just listing my thoughts because I'm a disorganised person :P):

  • [*]Ritsu was purposely intended as a joke/troll character (made by the Japanese equivalent of 4chan, no less)
    [*]Though he looks female, it's explained that he cross-dresses. Interestingly, I think the fandom refer to him by male pronouns because cross-dressing is one of his more normal traits (as many people do it in real life), at least partly so.
    [*]He has an offensive slur listed as his gender on his official site (see the first bullet point)
    [*]As a transgendered person, I still cringe every time people say he's transgender because cross-dressing does not always mean the person is transgender, and some transgender people don't crossdress. Headcanons to do with this bugs me.
    [*]About the "it" issue, yeah...I'd rather not call Ritsu an "it" when he's clearly intended to be a person with a human voice and design. It should be common sense not to call him and other characters like him an "it" when the term is clearly dehumanising.
Because if you would place a fictional character as having a lower status from someone else just because they don't fit within a norm of gender, you would likely do the same with a real human being.

I agree completely.

I really wish I still had that video which explained the term 'okama' very well, at least to me. This might be coloured by my personal opinion but the term, like people have already said, is akin to ホモくれ┏(^o ^┏)┓, tranny, she-male, generally really offensive things that nobody should call another person in real life. Though obviously different people have different opinions on if it's okay to use or not, I'd rather not unless that person is reclaiming the term for themselves. In the case of a fictional character, of course they can't do that, so I would just avoid the term to be on the safe side.

From the depths of my sketchy memory (disregard completely if wrong), 'okama' is also used as some sort of umbrella-term in Japan for flamboyant 'queer' TV personalities, and I think there's a genre (or at least a thing) to do with having male presenters who are really camp, like drag queen personalities in the west. Just to drive home how inaccurate it is (let alone offensive), if you search 'okama' in Wikipedia, you get redirected to an article about homosexuality in Japan.

Plus, it's Japan, where transgender and feminist issues are less acknowledged and when it comes to insults to do with this, it seems to make fun of masculinity by pointing out a 'feminine' trait (liking men, or flowers, or wearing pink or dressing like a woman) as an insult (which implies being female or feminine is a bad thing). Far East Asian cultures tend to place more merit on being a man.

(I really hope I don't get verbally skewered for this post)