English Voicebank advise, please :)

Discussion in 'UtaHelp' started by KibouMichi, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. KibouMichi

    KibouMichi Teto's Territory

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    Okay, so I feel like I've nailed VCVing in Japanese pretty good; only I made a voice bank of a character that is German, but in Japanese. That's not really smart of me, right?
    So all I'm asking is: which English reclist should I use for reference? VCV or Arpassing? I'm torn between the two and I want the best sounding English bank with minimal effort. Obviously, voicebanks require a lot of effort, but I just want to know which one requires less work while being thorough.
     
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  3. Yanderu

    Yanderu Teto's Territory Defender of Defoko

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    Well, the three most known are VCCV, Arpasing, Delta CVVC, I've heard of some VCV English Banks. In order of oto amount, it's arpasing, VCCV, Delta. (Correct me if I'm wrong). Arpasing is missing phonemes, VCCV has about all combinations (Can have over-pronunciation and something can be choppy), Delta offers the most list variety, Delta offers 7 lists but is missing some sounds like 0/o, dd/4, &/{~, 1/i~, but is do-able without those sounds, you have to make your own oto as well, use list #3 if you want compatibility with Teto English UST's. They all use their own encoding systems, Arpasing; Arphabet, VCCV; Cz encoding, Delta; English X-Sampa, it's close to Vocaloid but doesn't use alt. aliases.
     
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  4. KibouMichi

    KibouMichi Teto's Territory

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    Thank you!
    I found CZ's reclist and it seems the most used, so I might go by that one.
     
  5. 幸兔雪 (Yukito Yuki)

    幸兔雪 (Yukito Yuki) Defoko's Slaves Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    In Oversea UTAU community, CZ’s VCCV is most used. Arpasing is newer method.

    I personally prefer Arpasing over CZ’s because Arpasing has lesser amount oto settings (I think that some VCCV’s settings are unnecessary THB ) plus you have more customization option in Arpasing than VCCV.

    Yes, default Arpasing reclists (ver 0.1.0 and 0.2.0) written by Kanru Hua lacks many sounds but lists that aren’t written by him covers (nearly) all phonemes. Kanru Hua’s list base on real (and some gibberish) English words while list make other users tends to be pure gibberish in name of effectiveness.

    Delta’s CVVC isn’t bad but like pervious poster said, it does miss some sounds (easy to edit and add these sounds on list tho). The reclist is written by Japanese and his reclist is basically made for Japanese users and their accent. The reclist is supposed to be “easy and light way to record English for Japanese”.

    If you’re Vocaloid or A/E user, you might prefer his list because his list uses X-Sampa. But downside is that all support and guides making Delta English are for now in Japanese only, so if you can’t read Japanese and just started to learning using UTAU, I suggest to go with VCCV or Arpasing.
     
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  6. RaccoonButler

    RaccoonButler Founder of The Church of Mawarine Shuu Defender of Defoko

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    Cz’s is the most used, however arpasing is on the rise. It has less but I would say that’s because it’s new.

    Arpasing is considered more easy to record/oto, but less complete/takes a little while to get the hang of using (again, I’d say this is partially because it’s new.)

    In terms of which one is clearest, both depend entirely on the recordings. Both recording styles have voicebanks that are heralded as being particularly clear. (For example woth VCCV, I’d say Cz herself, and with arpasing most would point you to KYE)

    From my observation, VCCV tends to sound the most pronounced/clear, but can sound a bit overpronounced/grating if one doesn’t have much knowledge of how the sounds go together when recording. It’s been around long though and is the default sort of english reclist.

    Arpasing tends to sound more natural/less grating and overpronounced to listen to, but can often get slurred/less clear (which I’d say could be due to a number of things like oto, usage, or the list not being as thorough as VCCV)

    It depends on what your priorities are.

    An unconventional reclist I like to point people to for the sake of acknowledging it is Neko Kanochi’s reclist, as I find it easy to use and Neko is known for being both clear and natural. However, it is not very commonly used (easy to get the hang of though) and is not as organized as VCCV.

    So again, it’s entirely up to what you really want the VB to be like.
     
  7. Kiyoteru

    Kiyoteru Local Sensei Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    Please stop spreading this misinformation. Arpasing is not a single strict list, but a method. It's certainly true that Kanru's list don't cover every possible diphone, and that it's frustrating to use those voicebanks, but there are other lists which are still Arpasing that DO have better coverage.
     
  8. RaccoonButler

    RaccoonButler Founder of The Church of Mawarine Shuu Defender of Defoko

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    Do you have a list for op that has complete coverage
     
  9. Kiyoteru

    Kiyoteru Local Sensei Supporter Defender of Defoko

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  10. KibouMichi

    KibouMichi Teto's Territory

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  11. Yanderu

    Yanderu Teto's Territory Defender of Defoko

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    Thank you for the corrections, I realize my mistakes. I should have read and done more research on the arpasing topic.
     

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