JAY

Tea Enthusiast
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
The only way to sum up my opinion is that none of the current methods are any good and you are better off creating something new for yourself. Just my two cents.

And also that Utau isn't really set up to handle the complexity of English.
Agree.
 
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Vivification

Ruko's Ruffians
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
I'd change the OTO on Falsetto's VCCV just a tiny bit but I have done a lot of damage just by looking at an OTO.ini file before.
 

Zoku

making doper vocaloid music than the rest
Defender of Defoko
points at my reclist which takes advantage of VCV

UTAU is a vocal synthesizer, and it's set up makes it very customizable. It can handle English.
 

WyndReed

Dareka tasukete!
Global Mod
Defender of Defoko
With Utau, English things end up hard to tune and really processed.
 

JAY

Tea Enthusiast
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
points at my reclist which takes advantage of VCV

UTAU is a vocal synthesizer, and it's set up makes it very customizable. It can handle English.
With Utau, English things end up hard to tune and really processed.

I agree with both of you guys. I think that mechanically UTAU can support it, but it doesn't sound the best. Synth english in general isn't great to begin with.
 
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Zoku

making doper vocaloid music than the rest
Defender of Defoko
Vocal synth as a whole isnt great. In fact, it's terrible. The technology is underdeveloped, and you can get the same effects by using a TTS and running it thru a vocoder and pitch correction software.

Despite this, we use stuff like UTAU and Vocaloid.

English in UTAU, however, can sound awesome and even better than Vocaloid. At times it's worse. I feel that by discouraging English vocal synth, you don't want to look toward new oppurtunities. It's things and attitudes like this that leave us stuck with only these few commonly used reclists.
 
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JAY

Tea Enthusiast
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
Vocal synth as a whole isnt great. In fact, it's terrible. The technology is underdeveloped, and you can get the same effects by using a TTS and running it thru a vocoder and pitch correction software.

Despite this, we use stuff like UTAU and Vocaloid.

English in UTAU, however, can sound awesome and even better than Vocaloid. At times it's worse. I feel that by discouraging English vocal synth, you don't want to look toward new oppurtunities. It's things and attitudes like this that leave us stuck with only these few commonly used reclists.
100% Agree. There are ups and downs to all aspects of synth, and at this point I think we're all just learning to maximize that.
 

WyndReed

Dareka tasukete!
Global Mod
Defender of Defoko
I'm not trying to discourage anything. I, personally, am working on my own stlye for English Utau. (once I get a new computer and a mic setup I'll be better along but still.)
 

ExistenceReaper

Procrastinator
Defender of Defoko
CVVC and VCCV look really similar to me, and honestly I feel like, if done improperly, VCCV can sound a lot choppier (my opinion, though). I still don't understand VCCV and I don't think I'm going to any time soon but I don't do anything anyway

I honestly don't care much for either. English is complicated, and it really does depend on accents. In trying to write my own reclist, I've had a dictionary glued to me the whole time going over syllables and consonant clusters and everything else and it just seems like a pain. It's gonna be a long hard road to get good results. The weird things that people do when singing, a lot of them won't be able to get covered in an english voicebank and it isn't practical to try and get a 100% natural voocebank from an english reclist, obviously, since there's already so many phonemes to cover. Counted 41 at least in the first sentence of my post. No sense in not trying 109% though, right?

If what I'm working on turns out well and if I remember I'll let you know.

Sorry for the long post.
 
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Zoku

making doper vocaloid music than the rest
Defender of Defoko
CVVC can sound choppier than VCCV and vice versa. It's 100% dependent on the oto. Saying one can be choppier than the other doesn't have any ground or justification since they're all structure similarly in use.
 
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JAY

Tea Enthusiast
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
CVVC can sound choppier than VCCV and vice versa. It's 100% dependent on the oto. Saying one can be choppier than the other doesn't have any ground or justification since they're all structure similarly in use.
exactly what this whole thread has been saying LMAO
 

HulderBulder

Retired User
Retired User
Defender of Defoko
Delta English has quite some flaws, most being the way it handles cluster consonants. But if theres onle thing I like about it it is diphtongs. By having them I didn't have to cut the notes even more, making editing usts more easy.

I was slightly saddened when I saw that VCCV didn't treat N and other voised and hold-able consonants as vovels. Which is why I'm looking forvard to The Fish God's CVXC English. And it's written in X-Sampa so I don't have to learn a new phoenic system!
 

Zoku

making doper vocaloid music than the rest
Defender of Defoko
How does FishGod's CVXC list work again?

You make some good points about VCCV, though. VCCV ha trouble with consonant glides. So songs that need glides, like jazz or some slow songs are essentially impossible to cover.

When I complete my list, i'll probably make it adaptable to X-SAMPA and CZ phonetics.
 

Nohkara

Pronouns: He/him
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Delta English has quite some flaws, most being the way it handles cluster consonants. But if theres onle thing I like about it it is diphtongs. By having them I didn't have to cut the notes even more, making editing usts more easy.

I was slightly saddened when I saw that VCCV didn't treat N and other voised and hold-able consonants as vovels. Which is why I'm looking forvard to The Fish God's CVXC English. And it's written in X-Sampa so I don't have to learn a new phoenic system!
CVXC reclist?!? Where? o3o)
 

HulderBulder

Retired User
Retired User
Defender of Defoko
The reclist isn't released yet so I can't say 100% how it works, just that it uses voiced consonants in a smoother way. Here's an example
"Mom twirls" would look like [- ma] [aM] [M t] [tw3] [3ls]. (Taken from an example I used to ask how it worked on twitter)

The main reason I like it is because it looks simmilar to what I'm doing with my norwegian reclist
 
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Kiyoteru

UtaForum power user
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Kinda ridiculous that all these reclisters are coming up with names like VCCV™ and CVXC™. It makes it seem like it's some sort of revolutionary brand new format, when it's really just CVVC. What people need to do is just come up with a fun, individualized title for that specific reclist, instead of pretending that you've reinvented the wheel. Like LEXYS, Ecchi Jumble, Lofe List, Zokubet. I'd rather hear reclists named "CZeng" and "Fish X" than VCCV™ and CVXC™.
 

HulderBulder

Retired User
Retired User
Defender of Defoko
Kinda ridiculous that all these reclisters are coming up with names like VCCV™ and CVXC™. It makes it seem like it's some sort of revolutionary brand new format, when it's really just CVVC. What people need to do is just come up with a fun, individualized title for that specific reclist, instead of pretending that you've reinvented the wheel. Like LEXYS, Ecchi Jumble, Lofe List, Zokubet. I'd rather hear reclists named "CZeng" and "Fish X" than VCCV™ and CVXC™.

CVXC makes somewhat sense since N, L, Z ect are both vovels and consonants in that list, hence the X. But I can see where you're comming from. They're still CVVC hybrids (bridge and ending) in terms of otoing.
 
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