Long Note Issues

SakisCookie

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
Right...well... Sakura's ACT 3 voicebank hates me and it wants me to suffer.

It only applies to long notes, though. God, does she hate long notes. See, when I was tweaking her oto, I was adjusting it to a Rotten Heresy and Chocolate UST. Because, normally, the only problems I have to worry about with a voicebank are how it handles really quick notes.

Once she had been adjusted, I went to have her sing something else (I don't really remember what song, exactly. Jinsei Game, I think?), and she wasn't even able to sing notes longer than a second in length. Some notes sort of randomly become quiet. The only real way for me to fix it was to shorten the consonant setting, but then that makes her short notes more...bad.

But this only happens randomly, on some notes, on some USTs. I've changed every possible setting, tested every variable...I just don't know.

Does anyone know what might be causing this? Please help ASAP...
 

Dojan

Momo's Minion
Have you refit the UST for the voicebank? Did you reset the envelopes?
Also, have you tried with different resamplers?
 

PandaLolii

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
Can I see a screenshot of your oto in the editor? (fully and close ups) I think I know why but I'd like to make sure the oto is the problem.
 

SakisCookie

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
Ah...here's the editor of one of the notes that consistently has a problem.

Included: small view, larger view, parameter list.
 

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Iscabird

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
There's your problem - there's way, way, way too much pink in there and no white. You only need enough pink to cover the consonants and part of the vowel, because the pink region is the part UTAU doesn't stretch. The white part is supposed to be kept.

Other things to note - Front blue should only cut off the silent part before the note, red line sits between the consonant and the first vowel (I say first vowel because yoon sounds like kya technically have two vowels) and green line usually sits a third of the way in between front blue and red line. End blue should cut off the part of the sample where the sample gets quieter and stops.
 

SakisCookie

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
Well...gah. Now I'm confused. I mean, this is exactly how oto'd her last voicebank, and that works fine.

But the problem I'm facing is that decreasing the pink makes her short notes become BAD. I swear, they're not even decent. Just bad.

Edit: Also, the blue is covering some of the note because, for some reason, I hold out some consonants much longer than necessary.
 

PandaLolii

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
Sometimes you can just be lucky I guess? But what Kiidos said is true. You need to rearrange the Preutter and Overlap / green and red lines and change the consonant value completely (pink.)

I'm going to link you Yesi's tutorial because I think it's a much quicker and easier way to explain things. xD http://camilamelodia.blogspot.ca/2010/08/how-to-make-otoini-basic-tutorial.html

As for decreasing the con? Are you taking away too much?
And the blue at the beginning? Ahh yeah, that part I wouldn't necessarily follow accordingly to Kii. It's perfectly fine to cut some off sometimes. (As long as you don't go silly nilly with it I mean) Yours look fair, just from that one, so don't worry about it. :wink:
 

Iscabird

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
PandaLolii link said:
And the blue at the beginning? Ahh yeah, that part I wouldn't necessarily follow accordingly to Kii. It's perfectly fine to cut some off sometimes. (As long as you don't go silly nilly with it I mean) Yours look fair, just from that one, so don't worry about it. :wink:
Ah yes, that's right. Sometimes if the consonant in the sample is too long it can cut off the preceding note so it's useful to experiment with cutoff and preutterance if that's the case.
 

Dojan

Momo's Minion
Quick explanation of how UTAU works;
UTAU takes voice samples, according to a configuration (ust and oto), give the configuration (ust and oto) to a resampler.
The resampler takes the configurations and puzzles with it till it fits the needs.
The UST tells the resampler that the sample "ka" should be C4, be 250ms long and that the portamento at the end of the note rises to D4.
The OTO tells the resampler "this part of the sound is a consonant, don't modify this" and "this you can stretch".

1. Area between the blue area and the green line = crossfade. This is crossfaded from the previous note. Always put some space between the crossfade in consonants such as "t", "d", "k" etc. Otherwise these will become slurred and mispronounced.
Anything before the green line is played in the previous note. If there's too much room between the green line and the blue (left) area, the sound from the previous note will die out.
2. The red line signifies where the consonant ends and the vowel begins.
3. The white area is a stretchable vowel. Certain consonants (n, m, possibly s) can be stretched, but the only stretched consonant in Japanese is "n".

My suggestion; end the pink area where the vowel stabilizes. You don't want to bring any consonant into the vowel area (*ya sounds are notoriously difficult at times) because you'll end up with sounds such as "byyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" rather than "byaaaaaaaa".
Keep the consonant (pink) area short, but not too short. Pull the blue (right) area to where the sample is still stable, typically you don't want to include the vowel fade-out into the bank, and even if you would want to, you don't do that in CV notes, you do it in VC notes :uhuhu:

Good luck!

9ity81.png
 

SakisCookie

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
…wow. I'm amazed as to how I was so completely wrong with this, but Sakura's previous bank was fine. That's some crazy luck. :uhm:
 

PandaLolii

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
Personally? I would /not/ cut the vowel with the blue so quickly as Dojan's picture. UTAU sounds awful with that little to stretch. Yesi's blog shows it like that but I don't like it and from most of the UTAU I use, their creators don't prefer it either. Of course, don't only cut the veeeery last millisecond. I'd say when the voice starts to waver / fade off.

And now this is COMPLETELY personal preference but I'd also extend the pink in Dojan's example if you're picky. The vowel doesn't stabilize there...kinda? I think a little bit farther in wouldn't hurt but preferences..u v u

"3. The white area is a stretchable vowel. Certain consonants (n, m, possibly s) can be stretched, but the only stretched consonant in Japanese is "n"."
Maybe it's because I don't understand what you're saying but from what I think, that is /wrong./ Completely. Never let your consonants stretch within the white part. Even for n/m/s's like sa or ne. You know how bad that sounds on long notes? :uhm:
 

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