Selfadvertising

[Austria]

When someone selfadvertises their UTAU/art/cover/etc/something does it bother you?
What do you consider selfadvertising? it's an honest question ok
And what about selfadvertising bothers you?
etc.

I'm just curious to see the viewpoints of people.
This is not directed at anyone in particular.

Personally, I find it annoying if people glorify their utau and stuff ex. X needs more attention! etc. //not much to add orz

 

[Ant]

Yeah that's always ticked me off. :T Even more so when the only UTAU they use is their own.

Edit: Ooh, that reminds me about the covers subforum... When people only post there to put up their covers and not post anywhere else. That's pretty annoying...

Also, I believe that if people like my UTAU, they'll use it without me advertising it. If not, well, either I'm doing something wrong or people just don't like him, and I can deal with either. If its the former, I know that he needs an upgrade. If its the latter, whacha' gonna do?

 

[TheSnowSongstress]

It bothers me a lot. Especially when someone specifically says not to.
I'd say any promotion of your utau in a thread for promoting OTHER PEOPLES' utaus would count, as well as any spam of your covers and design, etc etc

 

[Lemondolly]

Self-promotion, I feel, is okay to an EXTENT.
For instance, it's okay if someone advertises their UTAU but if the only UTAU they only ever use is their own, then I have a problem with it(and I've pointed out a user that does that before)
And doing duets with their UTAU and another for me does not count as using another UTAU. :T

 

[Meta]

Self-promotion is ok if done appropriately. There comes a point when you're just shoving your UTAU in other people's faces and that's a no-no.
I find UTAU is a lot about marketing. You've got to market yourself well and in a way that people recognize. Going up to random people and saying "LOOK AT MY UTAU" isn't going to do you any favors.
You need to be smart and tactful about it.
I'd be more specific but honestly I'm still learning about it myself.

 

[PurinPuff]

Self-promotion is fine if it's welcomed in the context of the thread.

As far as UTAU users only paying attention to their own UTAU, it doesn't really bother me. Yes, I'm disappointed that they aren't using other peoples' UTAUs, but I have no right to judge them for using whatever banks they want. I don't think they should lose social standing because of it, especially when even some well-respected UTAU users do this as well.

And I don't really want to single you out, Lemondolly, but personally, I feel that a duet between two UTAU is like a salute to the other UTAUs creator. Or maybe that's just how I feel about it because that's what I mean when I get around to posting duet covers.

 

[Olivia]

Ermm.
I think self advertising is alright to a point... Sometimes it can just go WAYYY out of hand. D:

I don't really like it when people come up to me and are all like, "HEY USE MY UTAU!!! MINE IS SUPER GOOD AND EVERYONE SHOULD USE IT!!!!!" but if they are asking for my opinion of it and they are really nice and polite about it, I don't mind. I know that making and improving an UTAU can be difficult. Very difficult.

Spoiler

And I know I self promote when I post things about my UTAU in the reviews section of the forum but honestly, I just want to have a really good UTAU. o3o I'm sure other people feel that way too. I don't want people to just say "Oh yeah it's pretty good" I want their honest, raw opinions.xD

Oh mannnn
I hope people don't think I'm a really annoying person who thinks too highly of her works u.u I'm really not, I just want people's opinions. I'll try not to spam as much though because I hate coming across as annoying.

Oh and also, I personally don't mind it too much when people use only their UTAU on Youtube. I mean, I know plenty of people who do that, but maybe they have lots of other UTAU covers and stuff hoarded away on their computers and are too afraid to post them like me.xD

Hmmfsljd sorry for my rambling you guys ;A;

 

[IrisFlower]

Self-promotion, I feel, is okay to an EXTENT.
For instance, it's okay if someone advertises their UTAU but if the only UTAU they only ever use is their own, then I have a problem with it(and I've pointed out a user that does that before)
And doing duets with their UTAU and another for me does not count as using another UTAU. :T

Do you mean using their UTAU and only one other UTAU in a duet? Like say if I only used Iris and Rai in duets and no one else? Or do you mean using their UTAU in multiple duets with other UTAUs? Like say if I were to have Iris and Mimi do a duet and then have Iris and Mona do a duet, and then Iris and Nana etc.

Regardless why would that not count as using another UTAU? So, if Iris and Lulu sing together I didn't really use Lulu because I used Iris too? That's just silly.

------------------------

Advertising...it's like baking a delicious cake and going through all the trouble of taste testing and decorating it. You put it on your table but...no one comes to eat it. Why? Cause you didn't tell anyone about it. So what do you do? You advertise it by giving out invites so people can come see and cut themselves a slice. Then, if you're good at baking let's hope, they'll tell their friends and those friends will come around and ask you for more. Because hey everyone else liked your cake and they want some too.

Now let's say you bake a delicious cake and taste it and all that and it's pretty delicious. So you make lots of cakes and go around putting them on peoples doorsteps every. Single. Day. People eventually tell you to knock it off because your being obnoxious. They can't go out and get their morning paper or check the mail without getting cake in their slippers! And eventually everyone gives up on you ever stopping and they decide screw it and move away(for laughs they take their houses with them). Now you're stuck with all this cake, no one wants any, and no one cares.

Basically...people need to differentiate between "self advertising" and "spamming". Because everyone here self advertises whether they realize it or not. When you post your cover up in the cover thread for others to see...you are basically advertising yourself. You are putting your work out there for others to see. When you share a link to your work...advertising. And there's nothing wrong with that. How else are people going to see it?

What I would consider "wrong" is constantly throwing the same link up over and over again every five minutes trying to get everyone to see it. Share your links. Post your cover in the thread. Make a journal about it. Basically send out your invites, let people know you baked that delicious cake. But...let them come to you. Don't go throwing it at them or forcing them to look...let them come to you. If that cake looks yummy enough trust me people will want to eat it. And they'll tell their friends...but you have to start and you have to do it tastefully(oops I think I made a pun to go along with my cake analogy).

On the topic of using your own UTAU...whether it be the only UTAU you use or not may I ask why that has such an impact on everything? So my cakes aren't good enough for you unless I've eaten other peoples cakes?

While I admit using other voices can improve your skills as an UTAU user, your own UTAU isn't going to get any improvement if you don't use them and practice with them. How will you know what to tell people who use them? How will you know what your UTAUs limits are unless you use them and practice with them and really get to know them? Even if it's your voice...you'd be surprised.

And hell let's face it sometimes you will be the only person to use your UTAU for a looong time and no one wants to see their creation sit there and gather dust while everyone elses UTAU gets attention. Not a comfy feeling.

Now who wants some cake?

 

[Meta]

Iris... I love you and your cake analogy... now I really want some cake.
But it makes a really good point. I don't think it could be said better.

 

[moonst4r]

This reminds me of a thread I made a long, long time ago when I asked about how much advertising is too much. http://utaforum.net/index.php?topic=213.0

What I learned from that thread was advertise as much as you want to see other UTAUs advertised as well. If you see someone mention their UTAU in everything, "omg I should also do something like this with so-and-so!", "you should also use so-and-so next time :3", it's not really a good thing...

Creating topics on the covers forum, including them in your signature, your websites is okay. It's okay to self-advertise to a point. Just don't spam and don't keep asking others to use your UTAU. Twice I have been asked by complete strangers to use their UTAU and to be honest, I don't want to be mean but it doesn't give off a good first impression ;;;

 

[Hentai]

Self-advertisement is not inherently bad.

In fact, I would say many people need to  advertise themselves more/better.

That being said:  More != Better​

While self-advertisement is not bad, many people conduct themselves poorly, which is bad. When you are advertising yourself, you not only need to do so more, and often, but smartly aswell, otherwise you just annoy those that you seek to sway.

I speak about self-advertisement in length on my post on the Tips to Advertise Your Works Better sticky, of which you should probably read the whole thread, or at least heed the OP's advice.

There is nothing wrong is self-advertisement, but there are many ways to do about it wrong. Do it right and it could be a boon to both yourself and others.

 

[LupinAKAFlashTH]

Self-advertisement is not necessarily bad.

In fact, I would say many people need to not only advertise more/better.

That being said:  More != Better​

While self-advertisement is not bad, many people conduct themselves poorly, which is bad. When you are advertising yourself you not only need to do so more, and often, but smartly aswell otherwise you just annoy those that you seek to sway.

I speak about self-advertisement in length on my post on the Tips to Advertise Your Works Better sticky, of which you should probably read the whole thread, or at least heed the OP's advice. There is nothing wrong is self-advertisement, but there are many ways to do about it wrong.

This, basically.  (And I realize this is like the third or fourth time I've changed my views on the matter...)

 

[shinami]

I would like to say I don't mind advertising, because that is the morally right view of it and correct all around.

But, mentally I know I really hate advertising. A lot. It makes me lose respect for people.
If you just started, I suppose you have some leeway as you learn the ins and outs of the community. But even when I started on UTAforum a year or two ago the only time I advertised mine, at all, was when people would put together choruses and I'd volunteer mine. That's it. Sure, if I did a cover I'd put it in the cover thread, but I'm a person who barely does anything.

I think it's perfectly fine to post covers in the Cover thread. That is it's purpose, it's sole purpose. And sure, you can volunteer your UTAU in threads where people want you to volunteer your own UTAU. But beyond that I really dislike it.

I'm probably a person maybe people think should advertise more? I released an UTAU in August, haven't said much about her and thusly no one really uses her. And maybe it's not the best situation but I'm completely fine with it because I will only "advertise" her when appropriate, namely when a cover is made or I volunteer her (which I never do because I don't get involved in those much). And since those don't happen she doesn't get around, but that is how my personal morals strictly work.

And also...I really lose respect for people when they only use their UTAUs eternally and constantly. People who do lots of covers and only use their own. It's just...sad. And makes me furious when the UTAU doesn't suit the song at all. I make it a personal must to always suit the song, even if that means I don't use my own UTAUs ever. ...I can still respect some who do it if it's always very high quality, but it bothers me immensely.

AGAIN, THESE ARE MY STANDARDS I HOLD MYSELF TO. I am fine with other people advertising their stuff appropriately like others have stated. But I will admit that when people have similar standards to myself I HIGHLY respect and regale them. I am just overly strict, and I'm certain some other people have similar views, and just wanted to show that some people are very conflicted and different on this topic but CAN see where other people are coming from and accept that.

 

[Mini]

So basically selfadvertising is needed but only when it´s welcomed. The basic principle of it is "don´t be an inconveniet ass". Im just going to copy a part of my tutorial that fits this situation almost perfectly:

You know this world is not one sided anymore, the fans want to be heard and they need to be heard. You also need your work to be showed so dig every community related to vocaloid. Keep your twitter updated, follow producers, fans, companies and everything that can make a way for you to hear and to be heard.
On communities like VO, be polite as always and don't keep saying \"I'm a producer\" in every post or you might end up like Paul and his love for all official vocaloid. (Sorry Paul, this was the best example I could give). Share your work in the right place, don't put a banner, 10.000 warnings everywhere you can, keep your avatar, profile page and everything else for you not for your work, people like the person behind the composer, and in a community you're a person and a musician, not other way.

Which basically means, don´t put your stuff where you´re not supposed to.
There´s another problem that are those threads where people ask for UTAU indications, while it seems like a good way to self promote you will most certanly look like an attention seeker and even if your voicebank is good is good you will end up not looking so good in the eyes of a lot of people, so in the end it will backfire your personal relationship with a lot of users, and a good relationship has more value than a single download count you got from those threads.

I try to explain things a lot, but personal marketing is a hard concept and it depends on each person´s background culture and education, there are things, such as self promoting yourself, that relies a lot more on your personal values than a strategy.

I consider self advertising good if done in the right place and time.

 

[glaciachan]

I think, as others said, that everyone self-advertises to some extent, so it's not particularly bad in itself. In fact, it can be good when used appropriately; you advertise, people see it, people (hopefully) like it.

WITH THAT SAID, mentioning your UTAU every five seconds, or suggesting to others that they should use your UTAU when it's inappropriate to do so (for example, commenting on their video) is annoying and does the opposite of what you probably intended. So is spamming your cover every few minutes.

I also don't think that people are necessarily obligated to use other's UTAU's. If they just want to use their own/use their own most of the time, that's fine. Again, as long as they aren't spamming their stuff every five seconds, it's all good.

 

[Lemondolly]

[quote author=Lemondolly link=topic=4839.msg35343#msg35343 date=1359084460]
Self-promotion, I feel, is okay to an EXTENT.
For instance, it's okay if someone advertises their UTAU but if the only UTAU they only ever use is their own, then I have a problem with it(and I've pointed out a user that does that before)
And doing duets with their UTAU and another for me does not count as using another UTAU. :T

Do you mean using their UTAU and only one other UTAU in a duet? Like say if I only used Iris and Rai in duets and no one else? Or do you mean using their UTAU in multiple duets with other UTAUs? Like say if I were to have Iris and Mimi do a duet and then have Iris and Mona do a duet, and then Iris and Nana etc.

Regardless why would that not count as using another UTAU? So, if Iris and Lulu sing together I didn't really use Lulu because I used Iris too? That's just silly.

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[/quote]
Not exactly what I meant but you're free to interpret my comment any way you feel.

 

[IrisFlower]

[quote author=IrisFlower link=topic=4839.msg35354#msg35354 date=1359089709]
[quote author=Lemondolly link=topic=4839.msg35343#msg35343 date=1359084460]
Self-promotion, I feel, is okay to an EXTENT.
For instance, it's okay if someone advertises their UTAU but if the only UTAU they only ever use is their own, then I have a problem with it(and I've pointed out a user that does that before)
And doing duets with their UTAU and another for me does not count as using another UTAU. :T

Do you mean using their UTAU and only one other UTAU in a duet? Like say if I only used Iris and Rai in duets and no one else? Or do you mean using their UTAU in multiple duets with other UTAUs? Like say if I were to have Iris and Mimi do a duet and then have Iris and Mona do a duet, and then Iris and Nana etc.

Regardless why would that not count as using another UTAU? So, if Iris and Lulu sing together I didn't really use Lulu because I used Iris too? That's just silly.

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[/quote]
Not exactly what I meant but you're free to interpret my comment any way you feel.
[/quote]

Well I wasn't trying to be mean or anything. Why don't you explain what you actually meant? Cause I'd really like to know. I mean that's why I said something in the first place.

 

[Lemondolly]

[quote author=Lemondolly link=topic=4839.msg35416#msg35416 date=1359162527]
[quote author=IrisFlower link=topic=4839.msg35354#msg35354 date=1359089709]
[quote author=Lemondolly link=topic=4839.msg35343#msg35343 date=1359084460]
Self-promotion, I feel, is okay to an EXTENT.
For instance, it's okay if someone advertises their UTAU but if the only UTAU they only ever use is their own, then I have a problem with it(and I've pointed out a user that does that before)
And doing duets with their UTAU and another for me does not count as using another UTAU. :T

Do you mean using their UTAU and only one other UTAU in a duet? Like say if I only used Iris and Rai in duets and no one else? Or do you mean using their UTAU in multiple duets with other UTAUs? Like say if I were to have Iris and Mimi do a duet and then have Iris and Mona do a duet, and then Iris and Nana etc.

Regardless why would that not count as using another UTAU? So, if Iris and Lulu sing together I didn't really use Lulu because I used Iris too? That's just silly.

------------------------
[/quote]
Not exactly what I meant but you're free to interpret my comment any way you feel.
[/quote]

Well I wasn't trying to be mean or anything. Why don't you explain what you actually meant? Cause I'd really like to know. I mean that's why I said something in the first place.
[/quote]
I understand you weren't trying to be, only stating your opinion.
What I meant was in most cases I don't feel that someone can say, "I don't only use my UTAU, I use other UTAUs, too" when the only time they'll use another UTAU is to duet with their UTAU, otherwise they wouldn't have used the UTAU in the first place, if you kinda understand what I mean. You're right, it does sound silly, but I don't think an entire youtube page should be filled with videos of all the same UTAU in it, duet, or not, unless it is a page dedicated to that UTAU. Which to me would make more sense.

 

[Myon]

It's okay to self advertise. I mean, everyone wants to showcase their own work and have it be appreciated. So I can understand why it is a topic of interest.

However, it gets irksome when say. That one thread where it says to show off the unknown UTAU--someone posts their own and then says it's not known yet. Some part of me just wants to say " well, duh. this is like the first time you've mentioned it ", not only did the person utterly miss the point. But it also maybe the first time I've ever seen this UTAU mentioned, ever.

When some people advertise, I feel they don't advertise where they'll receive a lot of attention. Like on their personal blogs or DA. I feel like some people are just inconveniencing themselves when they do that, because obviously no one is gonna find their UTAU that way, which is sad. But like, when you post your UTAU wips on the forums or soundcloud--you're giving yourself a chance to be more involved with the community ( which seems like a necessity to me? i guess ) vs. being isolated on your own blog or whatever.

I think people should tailor a better approach to self promotion. I oftentimes find UTAU via threads where people test their banks and ask to crits. Like posting the whole work in progress thing is really cool. I find a lot of banks by looking through the concept folder on DA ( i am probably the only person who does that ) or through the UTAUwiki. When I see random UTAU pop up on DA or the wiki, it's like a new discovery. Not a in your face "HEY I MADE THIS PLEASE LOOKIE". I think advertising your UTAU should be likened to a sample of food, you a small taste of it but it leaves you wanting more. ( i don't know where i am going here. ) Advertising shouldn't be this horrible, thing where you grovel at people's feet or repeatedly vomit the same stuff about your UTAU, the only thing that seems to manage is driving people away.

Okay. I was a little everywhere with what I was saying. But I hope I kind of got my point across? Maybe it came off as a commentary, idk.

 

[Angel]

There is a time and place for everything. I advertise, not that much because I get a little conscious if I'm being pushy and shoving Suika into everyone's faces. So I avoid that ^^;

Otherwise it's good in moderation I love to see other people's utaus and mabye use them. But I don't like having it constantly in my face when I'm using UTAU.