Ways to give criticism...

Discussion in 'UTAU Discussion' started by Shasta, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. Shasta

    Shasta Professional Lurker Global Mod Defender of Defoko

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    I want this to be an open discussion about how to give constructive criticism on someone's projects. What do you think makes criticism good, and what is going to far? How can we make giving criticism a better experience for everyone?
     
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  3. Sors

    Sors Local Guppie & UTAU Korean Advocate Tutor Defender of Defoko

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    Constructive criticism in my opinion is noting both good, but also bad things, while offering solutions on how to fix the bad things. However it is also important to take the criticism well, accept it and try to learn from it.
     
  4. Avalia-Kasa

    Avalia-Kasa probably a potato tbh Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    i always try to do the sandwich method unless it seems the creator is asking directly for mostly critique instead, but otherwise i do [compliment] [thing to work on] [compliment]

    it leaves the person to see what they did right as well as what they can improve on to fix things for the future without making them feel like they did a lot wrong!! i also try to limit the thing they need to work on down to 1 thing so they don't get overwhelmed if there's a lot more (unless again the creator asks otherwise)

    for example if someone's mix is muddy but the sound of the utau is really good and the tuning is pretty nice i'll say something like "hey!! i really like the utau you used on this, they have a really nice tone!! the mix is a little muddy, maybe you could bring the higher frequencies out in EQ to bring out the consonants more? but like wowowow that tuning!! oooo its so nice!!"

    that way they still feel positive about what they did right and still get the message for future works on how to do better

    imo it's also important to realize some people aren't looking for critique. like i don't want to pursue visual art seriously anymore, so i don't like getting critique on my sketches because it's really not my thing and honestly i don't care about the improvement, i just do it for the fun of doodles.. so it really just depends on how they present the thing!! if it's something they seem to want to improve on, like, more than just a hobby (whether that's to get "popular," get money out of it, etc.) then i think critique should be expected, but if they say something like it's something they just want to do stress-free on the side, you should ask first before giving critique with the same sandwich method like (compliment) "do you want critique? but also" (compliment)

    as for going too far? i think that depends on the person as well. if the creator directly expresses that they want all critique on what they need to improve, i think the sandwich method can be lifted to put in as much information, with how to fix the things you're saying, as possible. if they don't express that they want much critique, too much can discourage them!! so you need to limit how much you give at once. if you're giving the only the bad of their work without a way to improve it, that's not really too far, that's just not constructive and you need to give them a proper means of improving what they had wrong.
     
  5. Shasta

    Shasta Professional Lurker Global Mod Defender of Defoko

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    Yes, I feel like feelings should be the first thing taken into consideration. Not everyone is as open to criticism as others would like them to be or assume they are.

    I also agree that constructive criticism is the way to go. Learning how to take criticism is just as important as learning how to give it.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2018 ---
    Ahh yes, the unwanted criticism. I feel like that is a huge problem this community has. I also love the sandwich method you mentioned.
     
  6. Avalia-Kasa

    Avalia-Kasa probably a potato tbh Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    i don't think people not looking for criticism is a problem necessarily! since utau is free it leaves a lot of room for hobbyists!! ok this might be a hot take so bear with me aaa

    i think the problem lies in when people force critique onto people who aren't really looking for it (and i know why this thread was created, i'm not talking about that). like we constantly say stuff like "people will complain," forcing the negativity onto people that aren't ourselves, instead of saying "i prefer" or something similar. it shifts our beliefs onto the majority regardless of the reality of these statements..

    i think that we try to make ourselves look "bigger" and "better" than the people we force this stuff onto and it's just really unhealthy for the both of us in the end... so i think it's important to specify that it's our opinions specifically, whether or not they be the majority. if it is truly a majority, other people will agree. we don't need to push it onto the people who agree for them.
     
  7. Shasta

    Shasta Professional Lurker Global Mod Defender of Defoko

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    Hm, I'd disagree. I know lots of people don't want criticism because of one reason or another and I often say to myself before I criticize someone's work, "but did they ask?" Like, criticism needs to be consensual. And as for the "lots of people will complain," type thing, from my own experience, it's more of a, "I've been in this position and this is how it happened to me," so I see it as more of a warning.
     
  8. Avalia-Kasa

    Avalia-Kasa probably a potato tbh Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    oh i'm agreeing completely with criticism needing to be consensual!! absolutely!! i get why you'd disagree with the other stuff though. some people definitely complain to you, but in my experience, they more complain behind your back to other users than directly to yourself
     
  9. Shasta

    Shasta Professional Lurker Global Mod Defender of Defoko

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    Oh man, I remember when I first started my accent was in everything and all I got was people telling me to either fix my accent or give it up. This was like, 2012, so times have changed. I never asked for this opinions, but people sure loved to hand them out. It was miserable.
     
  10. Avalia-Kasa

    Avalia-Kasa probably a potato tbh Supporter Defender of Defoko

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    ohhh yeah. fandom's changed to be much more behind-the-scenes talky lately... i don't see as many comments on things at all anymore

    im sorry you got the unwanted criticism thing happen my dude
     
  11. Ivy!

    Ivy! Teto's Territory

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    I think that it's important to be specific with your points, and to (at least try) to suggest a solution. If someone isn't asking for criticism ask first (something like "do you want any tips on how to improve" would work) or don't give it.
     

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