Can someone here help me to simplify this reclist?

[WoofMatcha]

I need to make the reclist having less samples, cuz I'll add the missing samples on Act 2.
This is the attempt for me to save my throat and breath, I still want it to have bare minimum support for loanwords and other commonly used sounds in Japanese songs.

It's the OREMO-comment that I send here to ease you guys to point out, it's just based on Salem Wasteland's Efficiency VCV reclist and added some from Salem Wasteland's Efficiency VCV Extras.

Spoiler: Reclist comment

ああいあうあえ a-a-i-a-u-a-e
いいういえいお i-i-u-i-e-i-o
ううえうおうん u-u-e-u-o-u-n
ええおえんえあ e-e-o-e-n-e-a
おおんおあおい o-o-n-o-a-o-i
んんあんいんう n-n-a-n-i-n-u
かかきかくかんか ka-ka-ki-ka-ku-ka-N-ka
ききくきけきんき ki-ki-ku-ki-ke-ki-N-ki
くくけくこくんく ku-ku-ke-ku-ko-ku-N-ku
けけこけかけんけ ke-ke-ko-ke-ka-ke-N-ke
ここかこきこんこ ko-ko-ka-ko-ki-ko-N-ko
きゃきゃきゅきゃきぇききゃんきゃ kya-kya-kyu-kya-kye-ki-kya-N-kya
きゅきゅきぇきゅきょききゅんきゅ kyu-kyu-kye-kyu-kyo-ki-kyu-N-kyu
きぇきぇきょきぇきゃききぇんきぇ kye-kye-kyo-kye-kya-ki-kye-N-kye
きょきょきゃきょきゅききょんきょ kyo-kyo-kya-kyo-kyu-ki-kyo-N-kyo
ががぎがぐがんが ga-ga-gi-ga-gu-ga-N-ga
ぎぎぐぎげぎんぎ gi-gi-gu-gi-ge-gi-N-gi
ぐぐげぐごぐんぐ gu-gu-ge-gu-go-gu-N-gu
げげごげがげんげ ge-ge-go-ge-ga-ge-N-ge
ごごがごぎごんご go-go-ga-go-gi-go-N-go
ぎゃぎゃぎゅぎゃぎぇぎぎゃんぎゃ gya-gya-gyu-gya-gye-gi-gya-N-gya
ぎゅぎゅぎぇぎゅぎょぎぎゅんぎゅ gyu-gyu-gye-gyu-gyo-gi-gyu-N-gyu
ぎぇぎぇぎょぎぇぎゃぎぎぇんぎぇ gye-gye-gyo-gye-gya-gi-gye-N-gye
ぎょぎょぎゃぎょぎゅぎぎょんぎょ gyo-gyo-gya-gyo-gyu-gi-gyo-N-gyo
ささすぃさすさんさ sa-sa-si-sa-su-sa-N-sa
すぃすぃすすぃせすぃんすぃ si-si-su-si-se-si-N-si
すすせすそすんす su-su-se-su-so-su-N-su
せせそせさせんせ se-se-so-se-sa-se-N-se
そそさそすぃそんそ so-so-sa-so-si-so-N-so
しゃしゃししゃしゅしゃんしゃ sha-sha-shi-sha-shu-sha-N-sha
しししゅししぇしんし shi-shi-shu-shi-she-shi-N-shi
しゅしゅしぇしゅしょしゅんしゅ shu-shu-she-shu-sho-shu-N-shu
しぇしぇしょしぇしゃしぇんしぇ she-she-sho-she-sha-she-N-she
しょしょしゃしょししょんしょ sho-sho-sha-sho-shi-sho-N-sho
ざざずぃざずざんざ za-za-zi-za-zu-za-N-za
ずぃずぃずずぃぜずぃんずぃ zi-zi-zu-zi-ze-zi-N-zi
ずずぜずぞずんず zu-zu-ze-zu-zo-zu-N-zu
ぜぜぞぜざぜんぜ ze-ze-zo-ze-za-ze-N-ze
ぞぞざぞずぃぞんぞ zo-zo-za-zo-zi-zo-N-zo
じゃじゃじじゃじゅじゃんじゃ ja-ja-ji-ja-ju-ja-N-ja
じじじゅじじぇじんじ ji-ji-ju-ji-je-ji-N-ji
じゅじゅじぇじゅじょじゅんじゅ ju-ju-je-ju-jo-ju-N-ju
じぇじぇじょじぇじゃじぇんじぇ je-je-jo-je-ja-je-N-je
じょじょじゃじょじじょんじょ jo-jo-ja-jo-ji-jo-N-jo
たたてぃたとぅたんた ta-ta-ti-ta-tu-ta-N-ta
てぃてぃとぅてぃててぃんてぃ ti-ti-tu-ti-te-ti-N-ti
とぅとぅてとぅととぅんとぅ tu-tu-te-tu-to-tu-N-tu
ててとてたてんて te-te-to-te-ta-te-N-te
ととたとてぃとんと to-to-ta-to-ti-to-N-to
ちゃちゃちちゃちゅちゃんちゃ cha-cha-chi-cha-chu-cha-N-cha
ちちちゅちちぇちんち chi-chi-chu-chi-che-chi-N-chi
ちゅちゅちぇちゅちょちゅんちゅ chu-chu-che-chu-cho-chu-N-chu
ちぇちぇちょちぇちゃちぇんちぇ che-che-cho-che-cha-che-N-che
ちょちょちゃちょちちょんちょ cho-cho-cha-cho-chi-cho-N-cho
つぁつぁつぃつぁつつぁんつぁ tsa-tsa-tsi-tsa-tsu-tsa-N-tsa
つぃつぃつつぃつぇつぃんつぃ tsi-tsi-tsu-tsi-tse-tsi-N-tsi
つつつぇつつぉつんつ tsu-tsu-tse-tsu-tso-tsu-N-tsu
つぇつぇつぉつぇつぁつぇんつぇ tse-tse-tso-tse-tsa-tse-N-tse
つぉつぉつぁつぉつぃつぉんつぉ tso-tso-tsa-tso-tsi-tso-N-tso
だだでぃだどぃだんだ da-da-di-da-du-da-N-da
でぃでぃどぅでぃででぃんでぃ di-di-du-di-de-di-N-di
どぅどぅでどぅどどぅんどぅ du-du-de-du-do-du-N-du
ででどでだでんで de-de-do-de-da-de-N-de
どどだどでぃどんど do-do-da-do-di-do-N-do
ななになぬなんな na-na-ni-na-nu-na-N-na
ににぬにねにんに ni-ni-nu-ni-ne-ni-N-ni
ぬぬねぬのぬんぬ nu-nu-ne-nu-no-nu-N-nu
ねねのねなねんね ne-ne-no-ne-na-ne-N-ne
ののなのにのんの no-no-na-no-ni-no-N-no
にゃにゃにゅにゃにぇににゃんにゃ nya-nya-nyu-nya-nye-ni-nya-N-nya
にゅにゅにぇにゅにょににゅんにゅ nyu-nyu-nye-nyu-nyo-ni-nyu-N-nyu
にぇにぇにょにぇにゃににぇんにぇ nye-nye-nyo-nye-nya-ni-nye-N-nye
にょにょにゃにょにゅににょんにょ nyo-nyo-nya-nyo-nyu-ni-nyo-N-nyo
ははひはほぅはんは ha-ha-hi-ha-hu-ha-N-ha
ひひほぅひへひんひ hi-hi-hu-hi-he-hi-N-hi
ほぅほぅへほぅほほぅんほぅ hu-hu-he-hu-ho-hu-N-hu
へへほへはへんへ he-he-ho-he-ha-he-N-he
ほほはほひほんほ ho-ho-ha-ho-hi-ho-N-ho
ひゃひゃひゅひゃひぇひひゃんひゃ hya-hya-hyu-hya-hye-hi-hya-N-hya
ひゅひゅひぇひゅひょひひゅんひゅ hyu-hyu-hye-hyu-hyo-hi-hyu-N-hyu
ひぇひぇひょひぇひゃひひぇんひぇ hye-hye-hyo-hye-hya-hi-hye-N-hye
ひょひょひゃひょひゅひひょんひょ hyo-hyo-hya-hyo-hyu-hi-hyo-N-hyo
ふぁふぁふぃふぁふふぁんふぁ fa-fa-fi-fa-fu-fa-N-fa
ふぃふぃふふぃふぇふぃんふぃ fi-fi-fu-fi-fe-fi-N-fi
ふふふぇふふぉふんふ fu-fu-fe-fu-fo-fu-N-fu
ふぇふぇふぉふぇふぁふぇんふぇ fe-fe-fo-fe-fa-fe-N-fe
ふぉふぉふぁふぉふぃふぉんふぉ fo-fo-fa-fo-fi-fo-N-fo
ばばびばぶばんば ba-ba-bi-ba-bu-ba-N-ba
びびぶびべびんび bi-bi-bu-bi-be-bi-N-bi
ぶぶべぶぼぶんぶ bu-bu-be-bu-bo-bu-N-bu
べべぼべばべんべ be-be-bo-be-ba-be-N-be
ぼぼばぼびぼんぼ bo-bo-ba-bo-bi-bo-N-bo
びゃびゃびゅびゃびぇびびゃんびゃ bya-bya-byu-bya-bye-bi-bya-N-bya
びゅびゅびぇびゅびょびびゅんびゅ byu-byu-bye-byu-byo-bi-byu-N-byu
びぇびぇびょびぇびゃびびぇんびぇ bye-bye-byo-bye-bya-bi-bye-N-bye
びょびょびゃびょびゅびびょんびょ byo-byo-bya-byo-byu-bi-byo-N-byo
ぱぱぴぱぷぱんぱ pa-pa-pi-pa-pu-pa-N-pa
ぴぴぷぴぺぴんぴ pi-pi-pu-pi-pe-pi-N-pi
ぷぷぺぷぽぷんぷ pu-pu-pe-pu-po-pu-N-pu
ぺぺぽぺぱぺんぺ pe-pe-po-pe-pa-pe-N-pe
ぽぽぱぽぴぽんぽ po-po-pa-po-pi-po-N-po
ぴゃぴゃぴゅぴゃぴぇぴぴゃんぴゃ pya-pya-pyu-pya-pye-pi-pya-N-pya
ぴゅぴゅぴぇぴゅぴょぴぴゅんぴゅ pyu-pyu-pye-pyu-pyo-pi-pyu-N-pyu
ぴぇぴぇぴょぴぇぴゃぴぴぇんぴぇ pye-pye-pyo-pye-pya-pi-pye-N-pye
ぴょぴょぴゃぴょぴゅぴぴょんぴょ pyo-pyo-pya-pyo-pyu-pi-pyo-N-pyo
ままみまむまんま ma-ma-mi-ma-mu-ma-N-ma
みみむみめみんみ mi-mi-mu-mi-me-mi-N-mi
むむめむもむんむ mu-mu-me-mu-mo-mu-N-mu
めめもめまめんめ me-me-mo-me-ma-me-N-me
ももまもみもんも mo-mo-ma-mo-mi-mo-N-mo
みゃみゃみゅみゃみぇみみゃんみゃ mya-mya-myu-mya-mye-mi-mya-N-mya
みゅみゅみぇみゅみょみみゅんみゅ myu-myu-mye-myu-myo-mi-myu-N-myu
みぇみぇみょみぇみゃみみぇんみぇ mye-mye-myo-mye-mya-mi-mye-N-mye
みょみょみゃみょみゅみみょんみょ myo-myo-mya-myo-myu-mi-myo-N-myo
ややゆやいぇいやんや ya-ya-yu-ya-ye-i-ya-N-ya
ゆゆいぇゆよいゆんゆ yu-yu-ye-yu-yo-i-yu-N-yu
いぇいぇよいぇやいいぇんいぇ ye-ye-yo-ye-ya-i-ye-N-ye
よよやよゆいよんよ yo-yo-ya-yo-yu-i-yo-N-yo
ららりらるらんら ra-ra-ri-ra-ru-ra-N-ra
りりるりれりんり ri-ri-ru-ri-re-ri-N-ri
るるれるろるんる ru-ru-re-ru-ro-ru-N-ru
れれろれられんれ re-re-ro-re-ra-re-N-re
ろろらろりろんろ ro-ro-ra-ro-ri-ro-N-ro
りゃりゃりゅりゃりぇりりゃんりゃ rya-rya-ryu-rya-rye-ri-rya-N-rya
りゅりゅりぇりゅりょりりゅんりゅ ryu-ryu-rye-ryu-ryo-ri-ryu-N-ryu
りぇりぇりょりぇりゃりりぇんりぇ rye-rye-ryo-rye-rya-ri-rye-N-rye
りょりょりゃりょりゅりりょんりょ ryo-ryo-rya-ryo-ryu-ri-ryo-N-ryo
わわうぃわうぇうわんわ wa-wa-wi-wa-we-u-wa-N-wa
うぃうぃうぇうぃをううぃんうぃ wi-wi-we-wi-wo-u-wi-N-wi
うぇうぇをうぇわううぇんうぇ we-we-wo-we-wa-u-we-N-we
ををわをうぃうをんを wo-wo-wa-wo-wi-u-wo-N-wo
ヴぁヴぁヴぃヴぁヴヴぁんヴぁ va-va-vi-va-vu-va-N-va
ヴぃヴぃヴヴぃヴぇヴぃんヴぃ vi-vi-vu-vi-ve-vi-N-vi
ヴヴヴぇヴヴぉヴんヴ vu-vu-ve-vu-vo-vu-N-vu
ヴぇヴぇヴぉヴぇヴぁヴぇんヴぇ ve-ve-vo-ve-va-ve-N-ve
ヴぉヴぉヴぁヴぉヴぃヴぉんヴぉ vo-vo-va-vo-vi-vo-N-vo
ララリラルラんラ la-la-li-la-lu-la-N-la
リリルリレリんリ li-li-lu-li-le-li-N-li
ルルレルロルんル lu-lu-le-lu-lo-lu-N-lu
レレロレラレんレ le-le-lo-le-la-le-N-le
ロロラロリロんロ lo-lo-la-lo-li-lo-N-lo

 

[SaKe]

Cut all L and V phonemes, and all ts phonemes besides tsu.
Remove ‘sha’.

 

[WoofMatcha]

I want to make my voicebank release covering Tengaku (Power), Meltdown (Normal), Tsumugi Uta (Soft, cover with Kasane Teto UTAU or Rouon Aro Tender).
Yeah, all the Kagamine songs LMFAO

Maybe I must made the Chinese voicebank with Act 2 later, and makes the cover of Tsumugi Uta in Chinese as the preview LMAO
I can do proper Chinese pronunciations, but I have no idea for how the reclist would look like later.

 

[WoofMatcha]

Cut all L and V phonemes, and all ts phonemes besides tsu.
Remove ‘sha’.

Ok...
Maybe for L and V I keep them, cuz the L is for alternative spelling or the "r" and V for loanwords.

 

[SaKe]

Ok...
Maybe for L and V I keep them, cuz the L is for alternative spelling or the "r" and V for loanwords.

L and the Japanese R are pronounced similarly enough they can be interchanged. Same with V and F.

 

[FelineWasteland]

Full VCV lists are structured in a way to ensure every necessary V + CV combo is included, and the easiest way to structure it also results in the inclusion of samples that aren't specifically necessary, like [tsa] and [ye] for example. There isn't really a way to pair it down to only strictly necessary CVs without fully reconstructing the strings.

For example, removing the [tsa][tsi][tse][tso] samples from the list as-is would also mean that [a tsu][i tsu] etc. are no longer included, which are needed for a full VCV. Instead you'd have to completely reorganize the [ts] section of the reclist, or replace [tu] with [tsu] in the [t] strings to omitt both. But then when it comes to removing things like [ti] it gets more complicated since [cha][chi][chu][cho] are all needed, so there's a lot to consider. These are just a few examples. Hence, it's easier in my book to just record the extras even if it makes the list slightly longer.

In terms of what can be taken out without restructuring the list, though, [v] can be omitted since it's a marginal phoneme and allophonic with [ b] (not [f]); it's included in the standard list because it's, well, standard to include in a Japanese bank. [l] can also be omitted since its an allophone of [r].

Also, [sha] is a necessary CV (e.g. kaisha, 'business/company').

There are Lite VCV reclists out there which include medial CVs (CVs taken from the middle of a string) and some but not all VCVs; that would be your best bet if you have your heart set on a VCV voicebank but don't want to record the whole thing. Personally, though, I'd just recommend CVVC if size is your main concern.

 

[WoofMatcha]

Full VCV lists are structured in a way to ensure every necessary V + CV combo is included, and the easiest way to structure it also results in the inclusion of samples that aren't specifically necessary, like [tsa] and [ye] for example. There isn't really a way to pair it down to only strictly necessary CVs without fully reconstructing the strings.

For example, removing the [tsa][tsi][tse][tso] samples from the list as-is would also mean that [a tsu][i tsu] etc. are no longer included, which are needed for a full VCV. Instead you'd have to completely reorganize the [ts] section of the reclist, or replace [tu] with [tsu] in the [t] strings to omitt both. But then when it comes to removing things like [ti] it gets more complicated since [cha][chi][chu][cho] are all needed, so there's a lot to consider. These are just a few examples. Hence, it's easier in my book to just record the extras even if it makes the list slightly longer.

In terms of what can be taken out without restructuring the list, though, [v] can be omitted since it's a marginal phoneme and allophonic with [ b] (not [f]); it's included in the standard list because it's, well, standard to include in a Japanese bank. [l] can also be omitted since its an allophone of [r].

Also, [sha] is a necessary CV (e.g. kaisha, 'business/company').

There are Lite VCV reclists out there which include medial CVs (CVs taken from the middle of a string) and some but not all VCVs; that would be your best bet if you have your heart set on a VCV voicebank but don't want to record the whole thing. Personally, though, I'd just recommend CVVC if size is your main concern.

My plan is to add the removed samples later as updates without changing the reclist or making the CVVC and then make the full VCV as update, I really don't care about file size cuz I want my voicebank to be multipitched.

I want to try lite VCV reclists out there but I don't want to re-record everything once I want to make the update to add missing samples, cuz the reclist definitely different. I even still have a skill issue on making a reclist cuz I'm still not understand to do it LMAO

 

[FelineWasteland]

My plan is to add the removed samples later as updates without changing the reclist or making the CVVC and then make the full VCV as update, I really don't care about file size cuz I want my voicebank to be multipitched.

I want to try lite VCV reclists out there but I don't want to re-record everything once I want to make the update to add missing samples, cuz the reclist definitely different. I even still have a skill issue on making a reclist cuz I'm still not understand to do it LMAO

I guess my confusion then is that if you're planning to record the whole thing anyways, why are you considering it as separate releases, especially if you're going to use the recordings from the first voicebank in the second? Why not just record the whole list over multiple recording sessions so you can treat it as one complete voicebank?

If it's that you want to make something smaller but still usable before delving into the full VCV, I get that, it's just that VCV isn't the best option for that kind of thing because of the way it functions; there just isn't a lot you can take out and have it still work as intended.

It's not that what you want to do is impossible, though, but you'd most likely have to customize your own reclist based around what you want to include in the first and second voicebank because there aren't any lists I know of designed for what you want to do. Alternatively you could create a full CV voicebank and then record some VCV strings to also include in it, that way you won't be missing any CVs when you go to use the voicebank but you wouldn't have to do a complete VCV.

 

[Kiyoteru]

I guess my confusion then is that if you're planning to record the whole thing anyways, why are you considering it as separate releases, especially if you're going to use the recordings from the first voicebank in the second? Why not just record the whole list over multiple recording sessions so you can treat it as one complete voicebank?

Seconding this question. If you're planning to have the full reclist recorded later, why does it need to be split up and released as separate versions? It'll be simpler to use the original full reclist and release the voicebank after you've recorded everything, even if it takes multiple recording sessions and won't be recorded all at once on the same day.

It would probably take more time to customize the reclist into separate parts and test that it works properly when combined.