• If you do not recieve your confirmation email within a few hours, please email haloutau@gmail.com with your username for manual validation. Your account should be activated within 24 hours.
    You may also reach out via any other listed contact on Admin Halo's about page: https://utaforum.net/members/halo.194/#about

Vibrato and pitch issues in Vocaloid 6

ryuusei86

Momo's Minion
I recently discovered that Vocaloid 6 had come out a couple of years ago, and that it came with ten voice banks, all of which have not only Japanese phonemes, but also English and Chinese. Since I do largely classical music with choirs, the more voice banks I can get, the better. And since I'm usually working with Latin, this meant I could finally distinguish between R and L, and have real Fs and Vs. I downloaded the 30 day trial, and managed to overcome some of my initial issues, but some issues remained. Still, I loved some of the powerful voices like Shion and Asahi, so I took a risk and purchased Vocaloid 6. (I noticed also that the ZOLA voice banks have been remade for Vocaloid 6, but I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on them, though I use their V3 banks quite a lot.)

The method I'm using now is to make a track in the V4 Editor, where I find it also much easier to control dynamics and tempo. Then I import the .VSQX file into V6, where I can copy the Vocaloid track into a Vocaloid AI track, and then make any changes I want to the phonemes from Japanese to English or Chinese. So far so good.

One of the major problems that still remains for me is that I can't seem to get an extended even vibrato on all long notes, like I can in V4. I've looked at the subtitled Japanese tutorials, but what I've found in actual use is that some algorithm seems to decide what notes get vibrato, even when I select all notes and turn the vibrato depth up to 127. Some notes get little to no vibrato, while others have an unnaturally wide vibrato that I need to decrease. When the algorithm has decided that a note will not get vibrato, or will only get vibrato for the first 30% of the note, there seems to be nothing I can do to change it. In the V4 Editor, I can tell it to add a tasteful even vibrato to all notes a quarter note or longer, for example.

The other problem that remains is that there are enormous pitch bends at the beginning of many notes, and at the end of some notes. Again, an algorithm decides this, and I cannot seem to access it. When I select all notes and use the pitch tool to change the leading drift and following drift to 0, the result sounds very unnatural and robotic, quite unlike what I get from my V3 and V4 Vocaloids in the V4 Editor. So what I do is listen to the track, and only change those notes where the pitch bends are unacceptable.

I understand that all this is in an effort to sound more "human," and no doubt the V6 voice banks aren't intended for classical music (which is the main reason I haven't purchased V6 ZOLA yet). I like the flexibility of having phonemes from all three languages, and have had some success mixing V3, V4, and V6 Vocaloids in the V6 Editor, but the vibrato and pitch issues are still frustrating to me, and I wonder if I'm missing something. I'd appreciate any advice anyone might have.

Thanks in advance!
 
  • Like
Reactions: WyndReed

WyndReed

Dareka tasukete!
Global Mod
Defender of Defoko
There is an unofficial plugin system for V5 and V6 called Betterloid. I haven’t used it myself yet, but it looks like it might be helpful.
 

hackrusty

Momo's Minion
v6 is sort of... just like that... i have unas ai banks and ive found that cutting the note short (marginally so, as to not mess up the timing) helps in some cases for the vibrato issue. as for the pitch bends, youll have to manually re-tune that part yourself in the pitch bend parameter. its kind of weird how the pb parameter affects the actual pitch with ai banks so you might have to change the pitch bend sensitivity to aid with that. its a lot of experimenting and, if im honest, frustration. since this is vocaloids first version with ai vocals, theres bound to be issues with utility and control; synthv was kind of like that some years ago. hopefully itll get easier with updates to come!!
 

ryuusei86

Momo's Minion
Thread starter
Thank you all for your replies. I couldn't get Betterloid to work, though admittedly I didn't exhaust all possibilities. I've downloaded Tunelab, and it seems like I'll have to go through a process to get it to import all of my voice banks. I was able to import a .vpr file I'd made, but playing it resulted in silence. Hackrusty's comments confirm what I was afraid of, that this is just how V6 is. I guess I'll just have to continue doing the best I can with it. It's a shame I can't use any of these V6 banks as soloists, because I can't control the vibrato.

On the bright side, after the update a few days ago, there are now TWELVE V6 voice banks.

Again I really appreciate everyone's help, especially considering this is an UTAU forum. I remember trying to get UTAU to work about 10 years ago, but I never had any success. Perhaps I'll try again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WyndReed and Halo

hackrusty

Momo's Minion
tunelabs voicebank branch works with v5 only. if i remember correctly, there was a bridge that worked for v6 but it was taken down. but utau is a good option!! openutau is a popular choice if you have trouble using regular utau (as openutau is designed more like vocaloid). you might also want to look into synthesizer v. you mentioned that you use choirs a lot, synthv is a VERY realistic engine that has a lot of multilingual options. theres a basic version of the engine and lite voicebanks that you can try out without spending any money if you want. i havent gotten betterloid to work either, it looks promising too, so thats really a shame :sad:

the new voicebanks are really exciting, and miku still hasnt gotten her announced ai bank yet, so thats one more we can expect soon!

in case you want to try them, heres the free synthv version
https://dreamtonics.com/synthesizerv/
https://resource.dreamtonics.com/download/English/Voice Databases/Lite Voice Databases/
and here is openutau
 

ryuusei86

Momo's Minion
Thread starter
I'd been watching SynthV for a few months, and some of their voices sound really nice too. Unfortunately it looks prohibitively expensive to build up a choir. I also just found out this week that Vocaloid 6 can't handle 64th notes, a thing which I remember reading at one point, but never noticed because I hadn't yet tried to use 64th notes. Another thing missing from V6 as far as I can tell is the capability in the V4 Editor to save duplicate versions of the voice banks with changed parameters. I had versions of all three Len V4X voice banks that "calmed him down" a bit, and versions of both YUU and VY2V3 that made very fine bass solos. The V6 Editor doesn't seem to have the ability to change parameters by entering numbers, but instead you must use the mouse to draw parameter changes. Same thing for tempo changes, but I addressed that in my original post.

I don't mean to turn this into a Complaining About Vocaloid thread, but I just find it hard to believe that they'd release a product presumably for singing synthesis in which you can't control basic things like vibrato. I'll keep working with it for a while, but if I just can't get past these issues, then I guess I'll have to stick to the V4 Editor and give up the 12 free voice banks.

I do appreciate everyone's input, though. I promise you it means a lot.
 

WyndReed

Dareka tasukete!
Global Mod
Defender of Defoko
I'd been watching SynthV for a few months, and some of their voices sound really nice too. Unfortunately it looks prohibitively expensive to build up a choir. I also just found out this week that Vocaloid 6 can't handle 64th notes, a thing which I remember reading at one point, but never noticed because I hadn't yet tried to use 64th notes. Another thing missing from V6 as far as I can tell is the capability in the V4 Editor to save duplicate versions of the voice banks with changed parameters. I had versions of all three Len V4X voice banks that "calmed him down" a bit, and versions of both YUU and VY2V3 that made very fine bass solos. The V6 Editor doesn't seem to have the ability to change parameters by entering numbers, but instead you must use the mouse to draw parameter changes. Same thing for tempo changes, but I addressed that in my original post.

I don't mean to turn this into a Complaining About Vocaloid thread, but I just find it hard to believe that they'd release a product presumably for singing synthesis in which you can't control basic things like vibrato. I'll keep working with it for a while, but if I just can't get past these issues, then I guess I'll have to stick to the V4 Editor and give up the 12 free voice banks.

I do appreciate everyone's input, though. I promise you it means a lot.
Vocaloid5 and V6 have style settings that can be created and applied to the vb instead of the singer settings in V4.
 

Similar threads