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What would you consider to be the bar for commercial UTAU voicebanks?

SaKe

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
I know multipitch is almost a requirement, but what else is necessary for you to spend money on a single voicebank? I’m not interested in creating a commercial UTAU, but I’m confused by the failures of nearly all commercial voicebanks besides Mine Laru’s Urr VB.
Physical products like the Windows 100% magazine and the Namida physical edition aren’t counted as they essentially have no choice but to be paid.
 

Row 4

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
Personally, I'd never spend money on an UTAU, as it's a free software.

That being said, if the bank is ridiculously good and easy to use (as in, doesn't require a bunch of add ons, AI integrations, etc etc) I'd consider.

It would have to have breath supports that are integrated and easy to use without the EQ/Loudness issues common in other banks at a minimum.
Multipitch yes, Multi-expression as well.
 

SaKe

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
Personally, I'd never spend money on an UTAU, as it's a free software.

That being said, if the bank is ridiculously good and easy to use (as in, doesn't require a bunch of add ons, AI integrations, etc etc) I'd consider.

It would have to have breath supports that are integrated and easy to use without the EQ/Loudness issues common in other banks at a minimum.
Multipitch yes, Multi-expression as well.
They’re long gone from this place now but I’ve seen someone trying to sell a monopitch CV voicebank for 50 dollars as a sort of UTAU NFT. Still haunts me to this day.
 
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Row 4

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
They’re long gone from this place now but I’ve seen someone trying to sell a monopitch CV voicebank for 50 dollars as a sort of UTAU NFT. Still haunts me to this day.
Now that's what I call CooCoo Banana Bonkers (tm)
 

SunnyWolves

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
They’re long gone from this place now but I’ve seen someone trying to sell a monopitch CV voicebank for 50 dollars as a sort of UTAU NFT. Still haunts me to this day.
What?!
For me, I'd consider spending money on a high quality multipitch vcv voicebank. I bought Urr because it matches that description (and also because, well... isn't it obvious?)
 
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SaKe

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
Now that's what I call CooCoo Banana Bonkers (tm)
And there was an extra fee for changing the voicebank character…
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What?!
For me, I'd consider spending money on a high quality multipitch vcv voicebank. I bought Urr because it matches that description (and also because, well... isn't it obvious?)
Speaking of Urr, where do you buy him and how much does he cost?
 

SunnyWolves

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
Urr is bought on Laru's fan box, and it was ~500 yen if I remember correctly. You can find a link to the purchase page on the utau fandom wiki page for him (I'd know, I added it myself.)
It's not much different than the float voicebank tbh, it's just a minor tone change with the same pitch count and identical quality.
 

GreenPear03

Momo's Minion
I'd say I think that if an UTAU is recorded in an exclusive new reclist format, or has some other products included with the voicebank, such as a musical album, it would make a voicebank worth paying for.
 

Kiyoteru

UtaForum power user
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
I agree, it's more feasible to sell merch items like stickers, keychains, and boxed versions of the voicebank. You can also distribute the voicebank through a platform that allows optional payment, so that most users can download it for free and supporters can donate if they want. Commercial usage licenses can also be sold, though that's more of a way to get compensated for the commercial use.

I will add to the discussion that I don't think there's anything "morally wrong" about selling just the voicebank by itself. An UTAU voicebank is a folder of configured audio files, which is the same thing as musical instrument sample packs. High quality or unique sample packs can definitely be sold for money, even when they're configured for free sampler plugins. In those cases, the difference between free and paid samples is often things like the quality of the recordings (home equipment vs professional studio) and having many more samples (multiple velocity layers, different articulations, round robin duplicates, etc.)

Similar features could be present in an UTAU voicebank, and sold for a reasonable price. This type of voicebank would probably also need to be voiced by a professional singer who's hired for the project. I'd expect that to come with additional support like custom phonemizers and detailed video tutorials too. However, if you want your primary business model to be focused around developing and selling singing synth libraries, you'd probably want to focus on developing for a commercial synthesizer instead.

For a typical hobbyist UTAU user, the best way to earn money is through commissions.
 

dead_byte

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
Hmmm, thinking as a consumer - I think Windows 100% had the right idea of packing in a bunch of voicebanks of professional and/or capable singers into a single pack, and charging for that. Conceptually, I think that's a great idea. Of course, as I'm sure you're all aware, the voicebanks themselves are... less than amazing, with often poor recording quality, weird oto.ini files, almost all but one voicebank being monopitch, etc. It really feels like the people involved with making these voicebanks weren't all that familiar with recording equiptment, or at least with UTAU development. That said, with a competent team involved who knows what they're doing, I think it might be cool to, like, make packs of professional-grade UTAU voicebanks in packs of like 2-6 different voices catered to a particular genre or song type ( Like you could have like a "Rock Pack" with two masculine and two feminine specialized rock singers, etc. ). Marketed kind of like a sample pack or vst.

If it's a single UTAU vb though - there's the obvious. Multipitch, high-quality samples, competent recordings; and for me personally, it'd have to be CVVC or VCV, I personally simply wouldn't pay money for a CV voicebank unless it was like, really, really unique and interesting. I also think it should probably provide something not often seen in UTAU voicebanks, such as, for example, being voiced by a professional singer, an uncommon voice type, catered to a particular genre, etc. I think if you're going to sell something that's typically free, you need a real strong "hook" to incentivize purchases, because it's not enough to simply make a good UTAU seeing as you can get plenty of those for free.

Their recent controversies aside, I think VOICE-MiTH's old UTAU voicebanks are good examples of what I would consider commercially viable ( minus ZETA. Sorry, I like her voice, but I would not pay for her Chinese DeepVocal. It's just way too limited, and there's no reason it should be monopitch with ZETA being a primarily Chinese vocal, while her Japanese vb has 3 pitches, and her predecessors all also had 3 or more ). They're high-quality, have distinctive voices, voiced by capable singers, competent oto.ini files, they're just generally good voicebanks, and it makes me sad that VOICE-MiTH felt silly one day and decided to stop being a vsynth company with integrity. Also, when ALYS was on Alter/Ego, I'd always said that I would've payed money for her to be on UTAU instead - and now that we have her recordings on UTAU, I totally stand by that, with her vocals I would have absolutely thrown a few dollars her way ( with a spruced up oto.ini at least, since her final vbs didn't proper oto.inis, and their previous UTAU versions were lower-quality recording-wise ).
 
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SaKe

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
Thread starter
Hmmm, thinking as a consumer - I think Windows 100% had the right idea of packing in a bunch of voicebanks of professional and/or capable singers into a single pack, and charging for that. Conceptually, I think that's a great idea. Of course, as I'm sure you're all aware, the voicebanks themselves are... less than amazing, with often poor recording quality, weird oto.ini files, almost all but one voicebank being monopitch, etc. It really feels like the people involved with making these voicebanks weren't all that familiar with recording equiptment, or at least with UTAU development. That said, with a competent team involved who knows what they're doing, I think it might be cool to, like, make packs of professional-grade UTAU voicebanks in packs of like 2-6 different voices catered to a particular genre or song type ( Like you could have like a "Rock Pack" with two masculine and two feminine specialized rock singers, etc. ). Marketed kind of like a sample pack or vst.

If it's a single UTAU vb though - there's the obvious. Multipitch, high-quality samples, competent recordings; and for me personally, it'd have to be CVVC or VCV, I personally simply wouldn't pay money for a CV voicebank unless it was like, really, really unique and interesting. I also think it should probably provide something not often seen in UTAU voicebanks, such as, for example, being voiced by a professional singer, an uncommon voice type, catered to a particular genre, etc. I think if you're going to sell something that's typically free, you need a real strong "hook" to incentivize purchases, because it's not enough to simply make a good UTAU seeing as you can get plenty of those for free.

Their recent controversies aside, I think VOICE-MiTH's old UTAU voicebanks are good examples of what I would consider commercially viable ( minus ZETA. Sorry, I like her voice, but I would not pay for her Chinese DeepVocal. It's just way too limited, and there's no reason it should be monopitch with ZETA being a primarily Chinese vocal, while her Japanese vb has 3 pitches, and her predecessors all also had 3 or more ). They're high-quality, have distinctive voices, voiced by capable singers, competent oto.ini files, they're just generally good voicebanks, and it makes me sad that VOICE-MiTH felt silly one day and decided to stop being a vsynth company with integrity. Also, when ALYS was on Alter/Ego, I'd always said that I would've payed money for her to be on UTAU instead - and now that we have her recordings on UTAU, I totally stand by that, with her vocals I would have absolutely thrown a few dollars her way ( with a spruced up oto.ini at least, since her final vbs didn't proper oto.inis, and their previous UTAU versions were lower-quality recording-wise ).
+ You have to account for the fact Windows100% was an actual physical magazine you could buy, which added on to the worth. The voicebanks are alone are pretty ehh (but it is cool they got KEI himself to work with them), but you have to give them credit that they were in a bundle and probably valued quantity over quality.
 

dead_byte

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
+ You have to account for the fact Windows100% was an actual physical magazine you could buy, which added on to the worth. The voicebanks are alone are pretty ehh (but it is cool they got KEI himself to work with them), but you have to give them credit that they were in a bundle and probably valued quantity over quality.
I mean - I'm not arguing that the price was unreasonable - personally I don't feel that it was necessarily. The issue was that the voicebanks just weren't very well-made, which isn't a great precedent to set for the single-most widely known example of commercial UTAU to this day - especially when you have some actually pretty significant names and talents voicing a lot of them. I know if I had voicers like Kazuyo Aoki, Kujira, Chono Masahiro, etc. to work with, I'd at least make sure they're not recording their samples through a potato, y'know? It's a bit of a waste of their talent, especially considering the voicebanks were supposed to be used alongside the tutorials in the magazines as an introduction to UTAU for beginners, all the while the voicebanks themselves just generally weren't that beginner-friendly to start with. I'm not trying to knock them to any significant degree, I think it was generally cool what they tried to do, but I also think it's fair to say that for the only major example of commercial UTAU, it certainly left much to be desired.
 
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GreenPear03

Momo's Minion
I know that Empathy Studio's Orin is a physical item, however I feel like having a voicebank in PaintedCZ's new VCCV reclist would be one motivation one could have for buying his box set. Voicebanks that have unique features not offered by other voicebanks could be a good selling point.
 

SunnyWolves

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
Personally I think it's just because of the time and the people managing it. They probably just viewed it as a throwaway project due to how UTAU has never really been taken all that seriously or viewed as high quality. They were probably under the assumption that people wouldn't care that they're low quality because it's just UTAU and thus didn't put much effort into the project or have the voicers do much. I really wish this wasn't the case, I'd love to have had a higher quality Kujiloid to be used in enka songs or a multipitch Maita, Hagane Hey, or Korone Koro.
 

dead_byte

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
Personally I think it's just because of the time and the people managing it. They probably just viewed it as a throwaway project due to how UTAU has never really been taken all that seriously or viewed as high quality. They were probably under the assumption that people wouldn't care that they're low quality because it's just UTAU and thus didn't put much effort into the project or have the voicers do much. I really wish this wasn't the case, I'd love to have had a higher quality Kujiloid to be used in enka songs or a multipitch Maita, Hagane Hey, or Korone Koro.
I think if they really thought that, they wouldn't have hired professionals, or even made UTAU-centric issues in the first place. Windows 100% is a decently well-known magazine that covers a bunch of different software - if they didn't think it'd be at least a little lucrative at the time, I don't think it makes sense to be printing and writing entire issues to it that could be used for something else, or have actual Japanese celebrities voicing your voicebanks for that matter. Nevermind how difficult that'd be to arrange with how many voicers they were working with, I can't imagine that's cheap either, even with the low-quality samples.
 
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FelineWasteland

Feral Catboy
Defender of Defoko
Seconding the factors of professional quality and versatile usage. There's not much incentive as a consumer to pay money for a voicebank when you can get one of equivalent quality and usage capabilities for free. Professional vocalist, high quality audio samples, solid support for the primary language while allowing for pronunciation flexibility, thorough configuration testing, multipitch... these days multiexpression is almost a "must" feature, too.

I don't think its infeasible to release a commercial UTAU that's on par with those typical of commercial synth engines, though, but you'd also have to have some really solid marketing for it to demonstrate why it would be worth it to purchase. Offering a voice that can stand out from the crowd with an appealing design are also major selling points for the vsynth market, too, though maybe less important if marketing to a more general music production crowd.
 

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