English vs Engrish?

[KNΞMΛTCS]

Which do you prefer? I think proper English banks sound better, but I get lots of people telling me things like "English banks are garbage, Engrishing it is so much better".

 

[OMGPingu]

Engrish is only good depending on the .ust. Some usts are really smooth, like BANG BANG by Victor Von Drew, but others are choppy like Survive the Night by Chica-P

 

[adriann]

Whoever is saying English banks are garbage probably hasn't taken the effort to learn how to use them properly. Using an English voicebank, like any other voicebank, simply takes understanding the oto and alias nomenclature. Since there are different kinds of English voicebanks, on top of the different accents from such a variety of people, and different lists, etc. they take more effort to use, I suppose, than using default Japanese voicebanks. It's all due to the nature of the languages and the usage of the languages, I believe. There are multitudes of ways people read phoneme names in English as opposed to the straightforward phonemes of the Japanese language.

English voicebanks are, well, English voicebanks. They were made with the intention of being able to properly sing in the English language. Some people might make mistakes in oto configuration or make a few recording mistakes, but I don't believe they could be so bad as to be referred to as "garbage". It's like the same as saying "Spanish-geared voicebanks are garbage, just make a Japanese UTAU sing in Spanish!" (which is quite possible with some work, but look at how funny this sentence sounds!)

All that being said, if one likes an UTAU voice and believes the voice is versatile enough, then who's to stop them from using that UTAU to sing in English if it's a Japanese-only bank? It's possible, even though it might be a little hard to understand. At the end of the day, it's all to the preference of the user. If people like the work, then power to them.

Just.. garbage is too strong of a descriptor, haha.

Edit- Also... The term Engrish might be a little bit derogatory. It'd be nice to stop using the term...

 

[oteto]

"English banks are garbage, Engrishing it is so much better".

Sounds like an exaggerated version of something I would say....... Ya wanna know why I prefer engrish? The accent ans mistakes are just too cute!
Just like anything, either can be done well, or poorly. I think its easier to mess up and have weird stuffs happen with a cv vc or vcv english bank than engrishing a cv bank.
But in the end its all about what you put into it and what you are happiest doing.

 

[IrisFlower]

I stand by my previous sentiments and agree that most people who say English banks suck haven't worked with them enough to fully understand them and probably gave up on the idea because they're so used to using Japanese VBs cause English voicebanks do have quite the learning curve for some people. Which is to put it as nicely as possible? Unfortunate cause they're judging something without fully understanding it.

English banks were made for English with English phonetics. Period. To me, they will always be better for English because that is what they're made for.

I mean at the end of the day, if you wanna use Japanese voice banks for English then fine. Do you. But don't spit all over people who do use English voice banks and the work the voice creators put into it. It's quite frankly, insulting. To say that Japanese voice banks will always sound better than the banks that were actually made for English by native English speakers and that those banks are garbage or not good at all compared to their Japanese counterparts I feel is pretty much telling the creators all their time and work were for not and we might as well just use Japanese voicebanks for everything, which is silly as well as kinda rude.

@oteto
I love Luka and Meiko's accents in their English banks but I don't go around stepping on Oliver and Avanna users and calling those voices terrible or hail Luka and Meiko as being better than them(I'd be the laughing stock of the fandom...). There's nothing wrong with liking an accent/voice; it's when you start hailing that voice as the end all be all thing that's a problem.

 

[oteto]

This was all I said. I was not saying english banks are garbage or anything about the users thereof.
I was merely advocating engrish as a viable alternative "in my opinion" (is that what imo means?)
Im glad my opinion is taken so seriously, I did not expect that. The time and effort people put into their work is precious and I didnt mean to imply that it wasnt.
Thats all off topic kinda sorry guys!

 

[IrisFlower]

It's okay although I wasn't talking about that post originally...but hear me out anyway oteto since you brought it up and it kinda is on topic~ Compare someone saying "Have you tried using Engrish? You could get some nice results with it too." to you saying "you're better off engrishing". Yes, it's your opinion and you are not calling English banks garbage. But it still carries the same sentiment in that you're saying Japanese English is better than English English. I don't think I can break that sentence down more, as much as I'd like to...like you are literally saying Japanese English is better. And if that's how you feel fine.

I and others just do not agree with it, personally, cause Japanese banks are not made for English they are made for Japanese~ English is made for English and we think that they sound better singing it.

You can suggest Japanese English as an alternative without tearing English banks down which a lot of people in fact do and which I think you did on accident. For whatever reason if one likes Japanese English or heavily accented English banks or just doesn't like English banks at all, cool. BUT one can do it without making it seem like English banks are just not an option at all.

If they are not an option for you, well alright then. But leave them open as an option for other people. Imagine if I started saying "You're better off using English for Japanese instead of Japanese banks. It just sounds better imo" I'd be labeled as the fandom loon for sure for one.

But for two...it's the same argument. I'm pretty much shooting down Japanese banks as an option even if I might not mean to.

 

[KNΞMΛTCS]

@oteto I wasn't referring to you specifically, but to other people who have said similar things.

 

[Kiyoteru]

Personally I would rather go with an English-made voicebank if I need something in English, but there isn't an english out there for every single voice type yet. Nor do many of them have any fancy features like multipitch or "append" sets.

Sometimes I want to use a specific UTAU for being that UTAU and not just the voice, let's say Kotonone Azami. He only has a japanese bank, so engrishing is my only choice if I want him to sing in English. (And it makes me able to distribute USTs for people who have yet to create complex English banks, so they can cover songs they like with their basic Japanese CVs.)

Or maybe it's just more expressive if you decide to use Ritsu Kire over Ritsu CVVC+extras. It's really a decision to make by whoever is using UTAU, but when it comes down to "which can more accurately recreate English" then it would most certainly be voicebanks created for that express purpose.

 

[MillyAqualine]

Why there's no "both" button ?

It is true I prefer English voicebanks as they do have the phonems.... However, in the practice I use more often Japanese voicebanks (and even, I barely Engrish compared with what I plan, and sometimes I try other languages including French)... In fact, among the voicebanks I've DLed for English, you have VBs created specially for English with the phonems (like ÑAL and then I think I've DLed Halt because I was planning to use her on a certain song her vocals would fit), Japanese voicebanks (so far the voicebanks I've attempted to make sing in English (like Teto, Ruko, Axel) or even my own banks who have a "mashed" voicebank

After that's the same for Vocaloids, all depends on the tuner's skills and the VSQ/VSQX/UST... However I am really iffy about the two sides when pushed at the extreme....

"English 'loids sound like garbage" → No, except a few that encounter quality issues despite having a beautiful voice (SONiKA baby), they sound really HQ and realistic-like (Operaloids, Avanna, Mona, and so on) + they are built for this language, so obviously they take the advantage and if you want the best results, it's the way to go

"Japanese/Anyothernon-english voicebank sound crappy ew" → I can understand it's harder to get accurate results as you know, they DON'T have the phonems... And also, the tuner/user must know what they're doing because of course using straightforwardly their Rs for English Rs (especially if they sound like Ls) OF COURSE it'll sound really off. You have in this case to play with flags, phonems tricks, parameters...

So yeah, English VBs are the best for it, but if you want a certain vocal to sing a song for you and you have to force it because they're not built for it, then go ahead, with effort and work you can obtain something correct (and more you're skilled and more it'll be imrpessive)

 

[samth1815]

Honestly I'm not sure why there's even a competition here. Even when done perfectly, Engrish in UTAU sounds so sloppy 99% of the time.

Engrish in VOCALOID is another thing altogether, but even it doesn't sound as good as a pure English vociebank.

 

[Tema]

Edit- Also... The term Engrish might be a little bit derogatory. It'd be nice to stop using the term...

That's why I call it "katakana English." (I feel like I picked that up from somewhere but I have no idea where)

Both have their merits and challenges, but using an English bank feels more satisfying to me. (Maybe because of the learning curve :'D)

 

[moonst4r]

To add on to what people are saying. English voicebanks have sounds that are made specifically for the English language. There's only so much you can do with Japanese banks. The "uh" sound is absent, the 'a' like in bat, not to mention most voicebanks wouldn't have double beginning consonants like "tr" and "sl", and much more.

But keep in mind that synthesized singing isn't completely understandable to begin with. Japanese speakers can have some difficulty understanding Japanese Vocaloids. Same with English speakers with Engloids. Which is why subs are handy. So to try to make them understandable is important. Voicebanks with sounds made specifically for English are more likely to be more understandable than Engrish because in Engrish there's too many replacements that need to be made for vowels and consonant combinations not found in the Japanese language.

 

[KNΞMΛTCS]

To add on to what people are saying. English voicebanks have sounds that are made specifically for the English language. There's only so much you can do with Japanese banks. The "uh" sound is absent, the 'a' like in bat, not to mention most voicebanks wouldn't have double beginning consonants like "tr" and "sl", and much more.

But keep in mind that synthesized singing isn't completely understandable to begin with. Japanese speakers can have some difficulty understanding Japanese Vocaloids. Same with English speakers with Engloids. Which is why subs are handy. So to try to make them understandable is important. Voicebanks with sounds made specifically for English are more likely to be more understandable than Engrish because in Engrish there's too many replacements that need to be made for vowels and consonant combinations not found in the Japanese language.

Totally agree. PS Mimi rocks!

That's why I call it "katakana English." (I feel like I picked that up from somewhere but I have no idea where)

Nice term, but what if it's a romaji Japanese voice? :0

 

[Tema]

Nice term, but what if it's a romaji Japanese voice? :0

The voicebank's encoding is irrelevant, because it also applies to real life XP

 

[moonst4r]

@user 7823472d48
Thank you dear ^-^

Are you confused with katakana? Katakana are just special Japanese letters mainly used for foreign words and would be the same as hiragana if translated into romaji.

 

[Info-Chan]

I usually prefer Engrish

 

[Dorel]

I think it depends on the voicebank itself, not much on the Engrish/English competition
Usually, English sounds way better than Engrish, but there are come good Japanese UTAUs with extra phonemes that make Engrish sound way better than basic CVs. Also, there are always those English voicebanks with bad pronunciation and strong accent that, really, can ruin your entire work just because of this.

At the end, the more a voicebank is complete and well made, the best it sounds in both Engrish and English cases, to me.

 

[Lorreine Geralde]

I prefer both good English and pseudo-English (because the term "Engrish" is really offensive to me) if they are done properly.